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What infuriates me is that there are still people like you around who are adamant that people such as myself are adherents to a "lifestyle" (i.e. choice), and, as such, we need to stop flaunting our "choice" in front of mainstream American eyes. Can you choose to fall in love with a member of the same gender? No. The very notion likely disgusts you as much as I'm put off at the thought of being with a woman. You never consciously chose to be attracted to women just as I never consciously chose to be attracted to men. If we can neither choose nor alter our sexual orientations then why should those of us in the minority sit quietly as the mainstream continues to search for ways to marginalize us and deny us civil equality?
The "natural order of life"? Are you serious? Homosexuality has been around for at least many centuries, and homosexuality is very prevalent and documented in other species. If, supposedly, as Christian zealots believe that man is the only species capable of discerning between right and wrong, and, if "choosing to be gay" is wrong, then why are so many animals gay? Why should I be expected to "extend tolerance" to uninformed bigots who will pack a restaurant to show their disdain for, as you call it, the "homosexual lifestyle"?
In hindsight I now agree with BrianTH that I'm glad our Mayor Luke Ravenstahl DID speak out on this issue because this issue NEEDS to be kept volatile and in the forefront of everyone's minds.
Every time I have chosen to engage in sexual activity, drink or eat, sleep, move somewhere, socialize with certain people, it has all been a choice. I made a conscious decision in my mind to engage in that activity.
You made your choices, stop blaming others and the world for it. As long as I have been on this forum you've always lashed out at others and blamed others and it's time to man up and take responsibility for your own actions and choices.
The utopian statists have tried to con people with this notion that people are animals that can't think or control themselves and hence are not responsible for their own actions whether it is crime, sex, eating, drugs, etc.
There may have been gays around in many civilizations, however gays do not produce children and without children who then grow up to produce more children, you cannot continue your society. Nearly every society and culture that ever existed had marriage between a man and a woman has had marriage as a legal union. Without it children are not produced and raised.
And that is exactly why the homosexual lifestyle is not celebrated and never will be, because you have to have children to continue to propagate society and without society collapses.
I don't personally like the ghetto-styled African-Americans who DO make the "lifestyle choice" to wear their pants well below their derriere, exposing their underwear for all to see in the process; spout profanities in public; have "weave fights" in front of others; loiter at all hours of the day on street corners in certain hopeless urban neighborhoods; etc. However, If I opened a restaurant chain and said I disliked African-Americans who made such a "lifestyle choice" but still in fact would accept their money if they wanted to patronize my business then you'd see the NAACP, the ACLU, Rev. Al Sharpton, the mainstream media, etc. all over me. Drawing a parallel between a subset of a race that consciously decides to "act trashy" and the entire Federally-protected class of the race at-large is a stretch, but it's a stretch that would likely be viewed as a viable one and would land me in hot water and would potentially shutter my business.
It's a sad day when you're born with a sexual orientation that is divergent from the mainstream and are ALLOWED to be ostracized for it while those who consciously choose the "lifestyle choice" of being a thug are afford so many more Federal protections.
What! You don't like other people that live their lives differently than you and are black? Sounds like you are being intolerant and discriminatory against those people. I'm appalled. Some of those people could be the nicest people around.
I don't believe in Federally protecting any class of people because that is not what the founders of the country intended in the constitution. There are freedoms and liberties we have and once we get into federal bureaucrats dictating thought processes of people, we are in big trouble.
Surely if homosexuals are granted special rights because of what they do, surely heterosexuals should be granted the same protected rights not to be discriminated against. So in other words if it's legal for gays to donate to pro gay groups, then it should not be an issue for Dan Cathy to donate to pro hetero groups. The standard should be the same for all.
Maybe we should reclassify pro gay groups as hate groups and heterophobes.
Every time I have chosen to engage in sexual activity, drink or eat, sleep, move somewhere, socialize with certain people, it has all been a choice. I made a conscious decision in my mind to engage in that activity.
You made your choices, stop blaming others and the world for it. As long as I have been on this forum you've always lashed out at others and blamed others and it's time to man up and take responsibility for your own actions and choices.
The utopian statists have tried to con people with this notion that people are animals that can't think or control themselves and hence are not responsible for their own actions whether it is crime, sex, eating, drugs, etc.
There may have been gays around in many civilizations, however gays do not produce children and without children who then grow up to produce more children, you cannot continue your society. Nearly every society and culture that ever existed had marriage between a man and a woman has had marriage as a legal union. Without it children are not produced and raised.
And that is exactly why the homosexual lifestyle is not celebrated and never will be, because you have to have children to continue to propagate society and without society collapses.
Are you trying to say that having children enhances a person's value as a human being, and that people who don't have kids are somehow inferior? Or marriages that do not produce children are somehow tainted or invalid? Or people who marry must have children, or marriage is reserved only for people who want to/can reproduce? That's what it sounds like to me.
Also, the discussion about the relative "celebration" of homosexuality always crack me up. They are Judeo-Christian sentiments and little else. You can claim that it's "unnatural" or "nontraditional" all you want, but those are just a Judeo-Christian cop-outs. Other civilizations had accepted and even supported homosexuality. Regardless, whether something is traditional or nontraditional should have little bearing on whether it is something that we want to accept or reject.
Edit: The "psychology of choice" example is woefully uninformed. I'm not saying you or anyone else can't say that your thoughts, feelings, actions, etc. are all "freely chosen", but at least acknowledge that is basically your feeling of choice, and that you are not intellectually sure that it is so, because it's not so simple.
Are you trying to say that having children enhances a person's value as a human being, and that people who don't have kids are somehow inferior? Or marriages that do not produce children are somehow tainted or invalid? Or people who marry must have children, or marriage is reserved only for people who want to/can reproduce? That's what it sounds like to me.
I read it that way as well....so if you can't, or chose not to have children, you are a black mark on society? Whatever, people ought to care a lot less of where other people are placing their genitals. Life is short, do what makes you happy. Maybe I come from a different generation that simply doesn't give a crap about people's sexual preference?
That being said, I like Chik Fil A, I support gay people's right to be gay and get married to someone they love, I'm straight, was raised a Catholic and I guess still am to some degree, and can't stand people who feel compelled to shove their own dumb beliefs in everyone else's face no matter what side they're on.
I don't believe in Federally protecting any class of people because that is not what the founders of the country intended in the constitution. There are freedoms and liberties we have and once we get into federal bureaucrats dictating thought processes of people, we are in big trouble.
Surely if homosexuals are granted special rights because of what they do, surely heterosexuals should be granted the same protected rights not to be discriminated against. So in other words if it's legal for gays to donate to pro gay groups, then it should not be an issue for Dan Cathy to donate to pro hetero groups. The standard should be the same for all.
Maybe we should reclassify pro gay groups as hate groups and heterophobes.
Sigh. I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to repeat the same thing again and again. Some people are just dead set on maintaining an ideology, facts be damned.
No one says that Dan Cathy's donations are illegal. No one is claiming that homosexuals should be given "special rights". It's worth saying that homosexuals do not intend to bar heterosexuals from entering into legally recognized unions - only the converse - so it's not valid to say that the oppression is equal...one is actual, the other is only imaginary.
You are basically saying "I have a belief (C) that forbids A should do B" and then if A does do B then you claim your belief (C) is being violated. Religious people have many beliefs. It is not government's job to ensure that all people do not violate those beliefs, just that those who believe such things may do so without being persecuted; permitting others to act contrary to those beliefs is not a denial of that freedom and is not injurious or persecutory...it is merely allowing others to disagree with those religious precepts. If government restricted action to maintain compliance with an ideology, then it would be tyranny - it is not the allowance of deviation that is oppressive, but the denial.
The sexual act is a choice, but sexual attraction / orientation is not.
That's actually the new stance of the Roman Catholic Church. They likely updated this so they wouldn't appear idiotic when science DOES prove that sexual orientation is NOT a choice.
A black and white example of what social programming from an early age can and does produce.
What a wonderful example time is making of your ilk.
As the disease of faulty thought falls by the wayside there are young generations that are disposing of the trash that you continue to litter upon the landscape of society.
Once you and your kind are gone the machine of progress and common sense will pulverize your bones into a fine powder to be used as fertilizer for the gardens of the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo
Every time I have chosen to engage in sexual activity, drink or eat, sleep, move somewhere, socialize with certain people, it has all been a choice. I made a conscious decision in my mind to engage in that activity.
You made your choices, stop blaming others and the world for it. As long as I have been on this forum you've always lashed out at others and blamed others and it's time to man up and take responsibility for your own actions and choices.
The utopian statists have tried to con people with this notion that people are animals that can't think or control themselves and hence are not responsible for their own actions whether it is crime, sex, eating, drugs, etc.
There may have been gays around in many civilizations, however gays do not produce children and without children who then grow up to produce more children, you cannot continue your society. Nearly every society and culture that ever existed had marriage between a man and a woman has had marriage as a legal union. Without it children are not produced and raised.
And that is exactly why the homosexual lifestyle is not celebrated and never will be, because you have to have children to continue to propagate society and without society collapses.
Are you trying to say that having children enhances a person's value as a human being, and that people who don't have kids are somehow inferior? Or marriages that do not produce children are somehow tainted or invalid? Or people who marry must have children, or marriage is reserved only for people who want to/can reproduce? That's what it sounds like to me.
Also, the discussion about the relative "celebration" of homosexuality always crack me up. They are Judeo-Christian sentiments and little else. You can claim that it's "unnatural" or "nontraditional" all you want, but those are just a Judeo-Christian cop-outs. Other civilizations had accepted and even supported homosexuality. Regardless, whether something is traditional or nontraditional should have little bearing on whether it is something that we want to accept or reject.
Edit: The "psychology of choice" example is woefully uninformed. I'm not saying you or anyone else can't say that your thoughts, feelings, actions, etc. are all "freely chosen", but at least acknowledge that is basically your feeling of choice, and that you are not intellectually sure that it is so, because it's not so simple.
What I was saying was that without children, society does not continue. You need a man and woman to have a child and just about every culture in the world from the dawn of time, has had marriage as an institution to bind a man and woman together to provide an environment for a child to be raised. Two gay men invading each others digestive tract or two lesbian women grinding up on one another does not produce a child. Those are the facts of the world.
Choice is a conscious decision you make. Anytime you choose to engage in sexual activity, eat, drink, take drugs, watch tv, drive a car, go for a run, those are all choices you make.
A black and white example of what social programming from an early age can and does produce.
What a wonderful example time is making of your ilk.
As the disease of faulty thought falls by the wayside there are young generations that are disposing of the trash that you continue to litter upon the landscape of society.
Once you and your kind are gone the machine of progress and common sense will pulverize your bones into a fine powder to be used as fertilizer for the gardens of the future.
Sounds like hate to me! LOL!
It's funny these people that proclaim all of this tolerance are the most intolerant and indignant people around.
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