Not sure if this is a good idea. (Pittsburgh, Penn: elementary schools, salary)

[Katarina Witt]

I will add, I think at one time, the generous benefits and pensions were to compensate for the lower salaries. In general, that's not the case any more.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I am not arguing against good wages, benefits and pensions. However, when these become a huge burden, and this is mainly pensions, maybe it's time to look at reform. Most of us in the private sector will not even get a pension.

About 30% of state and local government workers across 15 states aren't eligible for Social Security. They are in Pennsylvania, but they are not in your current home state of Colorado. Thus in many cases the retirement benefits aren't as lavish as they seem.

[Sideblinded]

People pay for their own pensions and do not recieve social security. (unless consultants double dip) This is such an idiotic argument. God forbid someone that is not "wealthy" isn't living in poverty after 65.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by eschaton

About 30% of state and local government workers across 15 states aren't eligible for Social Security. They are in Pennsylvania, but they are not in your current home state of Colorado. Thus in many cases the retirement benefits aren't as lavish as they seem.

In Colorado public employees get PERA. In addition, many have also paid into SS for 10 years, so they can get that, too.

Colorado PERA - Public Employees' Retirement Association of Colorado

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Are you figuring on a 12 month basis or 9 mo? Just curious.

salary.com has the median salary for a Staff Nurse-RN in Pittsburgh at $64,579. The same website has the median for a school nurse at $42,984. Obviously the school nurse is working the school year, which is usually 180 days a year in PA plus in-service days, if nurses have to work them.

Based on some quick calculations, it looks like the RN would be making about $33.36/hour and the school nurse around $31.84 depending on the length of the school day and how many days they actually work. I assumed a 7.5 hour day for the school nurse. I'm sure most school nurses don't take a real lunch since kids are arriving throughout the day.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Katiana

In Colorado public employees get PERA. In addition, many have also paid into SS for 10 years, so they can get that, too.

Colorado PERA - Public Employees' Retirement Association of Colorado

People who have had less than 20 years of paying into Social Security, but were public employees for most of their work lives, fall under SS "Windfall Protection" meaning they get their benefits reduced by around 50%.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

salary.com has the median salary for a Staff Nurse-RN in Pittsburgh at $64,579. The same website has the median for a school nurse at $42,984. Obviously the school nurse is working the school year, which is usually 180 days a year in PA plus in-service days, if nurses have to work them.

Based on some quick calculations, it looks like the RN would be making about $33.36/hour and the school nurse around $31.84 depending on the length of the school day and how many days they actually work. I assumed a 7.5 hour day for the school nurse. I'm sure most school nurses don't take a real lunch since kids are arriving throughout the day.

Keep in mind that private-sector nurses (particularly in hospital settings) typically have massive overtime, meaning their compensation is often 50% or more greater than their salary.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Keep in mind that private-sector nurses (particularly in hospital settings) typically have massive overtime, meaning their compensation is often 50% or more greater than their salary.

Where do you get that? Most nurses are discouraged from putting in overtime, let alone "massive" OT. When your shift is over, you are supposed to leave. There is no nursing shortage in most of the country any more, so there's little covering of shifts.

@ villageidiot1: The school nurse is entitled to a lunch like any other employee. There are generally designated "first responders" such as office personnel who can care for the kids in the nurse's absence. In addition, in most places, the actual health provider is a paraprofessional, the RNs work as consultants.

Originally Posted by eschaton

People who have had less than 20 years of paying into Social Security, but were public employees for most of their work lives, fall under SS "Windfall Protection" meaning they get their benefits reduced by around 50%.

OK, but they still get their public employee pension. Teachers in my area tend to retire young, e.g. 55 or so.

[pman]

Originally Posted by juliegt

God forbid that secretarial and custodial jobs have good wages, benefits, and pensions. Since outsourcing has worked so well in the private sector, might as well implement it in the public sector. Those companies that provide the services won't charge governments a whole lot less but you can be damn sure they won't be providing their employees decent wages, etc. They'll be pocketing the profits. Ok. I'll get off my soapbox now that I've vented.

what profits? it's the public sector. in reality, it would be better if they'd just negotiate a more responsible contract with employees rather than simply outsourcing. public employees shouldn't be entitled to pensions, both them and their employers have shown themselves incapable of managing them. for whatever reason, it seems easier to outsource than negotiate reasonable settlements.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Where do you get that? Most nurses are discouraged from putting in overtime, let alone "massive" OT. When your shift is over, you are supposed to leave. There is no nursing shortage in most of the country any more, so there's little covering of shifts.

I'm sorry, Katiana, but you're out of touch with what's happening with nursing in the Pittsburgh area. My neighbor was just complaining to me yesterday about her overtime at a UPMC hospital located in the city limits. She is supposed to work 3-12 hour days, but she is scheduled for 5-12 hour days per week this month. 24 hours of overtime per week definitely qualifies as massive.

Originally Posted by Katiana

@ villageidiot1: The school nurse is entitled to a lunch like any other employee. There are generally designated "first responders" such as office personnel who can care for the kids in the nurse's absence. In addition, in most places, the actual health provider is a paraprofessional, the RNs work as consultants.

Not in Pennsylvania. There is always a nurse in each public school. They are RNs who have BSN and additional certification as school nurse that is required by the state. The ONLY schools I have seen that have office professionals taking care of students was the private Catholic schools. State law does not allow delegation of nursing duties to nonlicensed individuals. Public schools are required to provide nurisng administration and consultation to private schools. Paraprofessionals are prohibited from engaging in nursing duties.

I know they are not paid well as the private sector. One of my children's friends was a school nurse at our school district. She was working a second job in retail at the mall. I don't know any private sector nurses who need a second job. I know a lot of nurses too. Since Pittsburgh is a low cost of living area, nursing definitely buys an upper middle class lifestyle in Pittsburgh for the two income families and a solid middle class lifestyle for the one income families.

Originally Posted by Katiana

OK, but they still get their public employee pension. Teachers in my area tend to retire young, e.g. 55 or so.

I think he makes a valid point that some school districts can't eliminate teacher pensions because they don't qualify for full social security.