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School districts and feeder patterns. Sadly the North side has been demolished regarding neighborhood schools. East End, (Allderdice) tends to be the most desirable. (higher priced) This is true for suburbs and city. It does not mean that area of the city is not worth investing in and moving to, it boils down to what is important to you.
Walk around the neighborhoods, walk from your property to the local businesses, visit the local businesses, try your commute out in rush hour, read the neighborhood church bulletins (they give a surprising good insight into the neighborhood even if you aren't religious).
These are all smart things to do, especially the tip about church bulletins. You're absolutely right that those bulletins can tell you a lot about neighborhoods.
If the rear house is deeded with the little house that you love and as bad as AA says, then you will not be able to finance this. Also, if the bathroom is in the basement, you won't be able to finance this without a rehab or construction loan. A typical FHA or Conventional loan doesn't want the liability of lending on a house that comes with the hazard of a falling down home on the same property.
This sounds like a cash only type of property.
Also, if they are on the same parcel, they likely share utilities (sewage, water and possibly gas). That will be costly to cap off upon razing.
But to answer your original questions - yes. I wouldn't live anywhere else in Pgh other than the East End.
Just off of the top of my head, it has the most culture, many of the best restaurants, a large assortment of educated people, the most diversity, museums and libraries, art galleries, parks, walkable and bikeable neighborhoods, it is relatively flat, is home to the universities, grocery stores.
Troy Hill isn't a bad area based on my 10 or so times being there. It seems like a working class neighborhood with some gems, some derelict properties, and some average mill worker housing. I agree with what somebody else said above - it is isolated. It doesn't have the best bus access, it isn't very walkable, Rialto is closed for a quarter of the year (when 28 isn't being worked on) and it is lacking solid local businesses. Sure, you can walk down to Duetchtown and there are a few amenities there. You can walk to lawrenceville, but that's at least a half hour walk and probably not something you'd do regularly.
i'm not familiar with fha loans specifically but many lenders have a minimum amount they will lend as well. i'd look into that before getting your hopes up. i know my lender wouldn't go under $25k or something like that. and i do know that all lenders have standards about home condition and fha loans are even more stringent.
i agree with drover that beechview is a good place to look. i don't know how direct transportation is to oakland but you can take the t to downtown and get anywhere, and driving shouldn't be too bad although you will have to go through one tunnel or another.
i live in a "marginal" east end neighborhood and i like it but we were open to places like troy hill and observatory hill, bunch of other neighborhoods ending in "hill" when we were looking. if you want to hang out in shadyside and oakland all the time the north isn't the most convenient but downtown and lawrenceville are easy enough to get to.
Wow. I had to work last night and was unable to keep up with this thread until waking up a little while ago, but I just wanted to thank everyone at-large for all of their helpful contributions! Right now my heart and my gut are both telling me to go for it, assuming there ARE any loopholes that would permit me to finance the property. If the case is as selltheburgh says and it's a "cash-only" deal there's no way I will have that much cash just laying around to plunk down at once. Even with my current living situation---a roommate and working two jobs---it would still take me a couple of years to have that sort of moolah availed to me.
I missed a great home at the end of Pauley Avenue in Hazelwood that I was on the fence about for too long recently. I don't also want to miss out on this home because by the time I do have those excess cash reserves around in a couple of years there may no longer be such bargains to be had in the urban core. While I know of a few people who have moved out of the region since I moved here in 2010 I've had more acquaintances move into the area, and all but one chose to settle in the urban core of the city. In addition I meet people daily at work who are just moving here to work with UPMC or attend CMU, and all of them have been discussing how difficult it has been to secure housing.
Other than selltheburgh's rather bleak reply nothing else would seriously deter me from buying this property. I don't mind a split-level-styled living arrangement with one bedroom upstairs and the bathroom and kitchen being on the basement level. As alleghenyangel said the home dates back to the 1880s, and I love history.
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Originally Posted by BrianTH
I think the East End can be well worth it if you can comfortably afford what you want, but that doesn't mean it is the only part of the core area worth considering. I think you understand the basic appeal of the East End--the nicer parts of the East End are well-established, and they are mutually convenient in terms of action/amenities. But if you are willing to live in a more transitional neighborhood and/or one that is bit more isolated from the action/amenities of the East End (although not necessarily more isolated from Downtown), then you can definitely look for relative bargains in terms of the actual housing.
Thanks, Brian. Obviously my "ideal" neighborhood is one not unlike Regent Square, Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, etc.---safe, family-oriented, shade trees, nice business district, grand old homes, etc. A recent study showed that 2/3 of today's homebuyers are now considering "walkability" to be a major factor in their purchasing decisions, which means while such neighborhoods are already on the expensive side they're only likely to continue to appreciate in the coming years. Troy Hill has just enough to pacify me. No, it doesn't have a grocery store; however, if I did just want a Vitamin Water some evening after work or a bag of chips there's at least a pretty good-sized convenience store within walking distance of this home. If I'm not mistaken there's also a laundromat in that same small strip mall. There's a pizzeria and another restaurant that I believe was right behind North Catholic. Right now what I dislike about Polish Hill is that if I need anything at all it requires hopping into my car (or a long walk), yet housing prices have still been appreciating at the same clip as the rest of the "safe" parts of the East End. While I'm already finding myself priced out of this neighborhood as a first-time home-buyer I'm sure values will only continue to rise, especially once the adjancent Iron City Brewery site and Donnie's Place site are redeveloped.
I do appreciate the convenience of the East End, but considering I own a vehicle that does open up other avenues in other parts of town that are currently overlooked (and, correspondingly reasonably-priced).
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Originally Posted by alleghenyangel
The problem with the house is the alley house in the back, which is close to falling down and needs to be demolished before it falls on the neighbor's house or your own. I had a couple quotes from contractors who claimed it might be 10-15k to demolish the house in the rear, because there is no access to the backyard. Even with the added cost of the demolition, though, the house would only be in the 20k range. The realtor told me to make an offer of 7k, but I backed out after I got the demolition quotes. I think this would be an excellent first house for Steelcityrising. It's quite old and dates to the 1880s. It's definitely a piece of Allegheny City history.
So far, I have lived in Chalfant Boro (1 year), Shadyside (1 year), and Stowe Township (3 years). I have no regrets about living in any of these areas. To me, downtown Pittsburgh is where it's at, not the East End. I'm getting tired of big city living in general, aside from the beautiful old buildings, so it doesn't bother me to be outside of the action. To someone into all of the Starbucks, Whole Foods, Pride Flag waving stuff, I imagine the quiet lifestyle outside of the East End might be stifling. However, to me at least, it is refreshingly down to Earth and unpretentious, while still possessing the same level of walkability (I can still walk to a bakery, cafes, hardware store, post office, grocery store, and the main business district in Stowe, I just don't have to trip over poodles, muscle stud runners, and Audis to get there).
Thanks, alleghenyangel. Considering you not only used to live in the East End but now also have viewed the same property I was hoping you'd be along to post some more details. I really appreciate this reply! Did your Realtor mention that it would be impossible to obtain conventional financing for this property, as selltheburgh implies, due to the liability of the derelict alley home?
I understand that being a nomadic individual York has been tugging at your heartstrings as of late. The beauty of Pennsylvania is that has many small cities that are just oozing with historic appeal. You haven't even seen many of these communities. I was raised as a suburban boy who always envied the city---the culture, the amenities, the festivals, the architecture, the people. Even on a smaller scale I became obsessed with Scranton (pop. 76,000) at an early age because even though I could see the city lights from my parents' bedroom windows in our highly-elevated suburban home I was still, well, a world apart, as we lived in a sidewalkless 1970s-era subdivision along a sidewalkless and very busy four-lane local highway. Now that I'm finally IN the heart of a big city I couldn't ever see myself downsizing for anything BUT a large urban lifestyle. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
For what it's worth while I appreciate the East End I don't shop at either Whole Foods OR Trader Joe's, I don't wave a rainbow flag, I don't do yoga, I don't drive an Audi, and I don't own a poodle. Yes, I do drive a hybrid, but that was a matter of practical necessity with my second job as a delivery driver. I actually DO mesh better with hipsters and the "old-school" Pittsburghers than I do with the typical "wear my sunglasses on a cloudy day with my poodle in the purse" Walnut Street crowd, if you catch my drift, which poises me to succeed in a place like Beechview or Troy Hill.
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Originally Posted by juliegt
Foundation, roof, electrical, plumbing, and HVAC. Make sure you know what condition they're in and what it will cost to fix anything that's wrong so that you have as few surprises as possible if you do buy the house. I like your plan for an American flag and a rainbow flag. When I was MUCH younger I hung out with Gilbert Baker who went on to design and make the first rainbow flag. My brush with celebrity. Haven't seen him in over 30 years.
I do worry if hanging a rainbow flag would ostracize us, considering it was just a few years ago that there were racial hostilities alleged by some African-American residents in Troy Hill. My partner (roommate) and I aren't the "loud" LGBT types who dress provocatively, act flamboyantly, hold hands in public, etc., but I have to admit after growing up in an environment where I had to hide who I was for so long it would feel so liberating to freely fly a rainbow flag beside my front door as a way to say to others "Yes, gay people ARE living in your neighborhood, and, yes, we intend to be good neighbors!"
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Originally Posted by alleghenyangel
The foundation and furnace looked pretty good. The roof was metal and appeared to be in decent condition (those last forever, don't they?). The house still has fuses (no breaker box) so that may need to be updated, but it was all working. Other problems I saw when touring the house: termite damage and water damage in the kitchen walls. The bathroom is in the basement, and kitchen is in a shaky looking addition off of the basement.
It's reassuring to hear that the furnace looked fine. From what I could view from the exterior the foundation and roof also seemed solid. The electrical would have to be updated rather quickly---we are a very tech-savvy couple who wouldn't appreciate constantly tripping breakers if we tried running a window A/C unit, TV, and desktop PC simultaneously. The termite damage and water damage are both definite concerns that would have to be addressed via a home inspection.
The more you tell me about the property the less likely I'm thinking about going in at full asking price (plus seller concessions such as closing cost contributions and leaving window treatments and major appliances) and the more likely I'm thinking about a sub-$10k offer.
Also, do you know if anyone is currently living in the home. My guess would be no judging by the sparse furnishings in the online photos, and if that's the case I may want to sneak into the backyard today to see the derelict alley home in greater detail. From my research on the property assessment website it looks like this home may be sold to settle an estate.
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Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam
The real question is whether or not Troy Hill is stable or if its declining as to whether or not its a good deal to buy in and live.
20 years ago, Carrick and Sheraden were certainly respectable working class areas, but both have gone on the skids since then. Is Troy Hill going down hill? Don't know, but I do know one artistic type couple that moved up there a few years ago, there may well be more. That's a good sign, in an aging area if they can get a good vibe of younger working people into the area.
Before I would buy in Troy Hill, I'd want to know what the Catholic diocese's plan is for the massive North Catholic campus up there, if they decide to change it into a home for troubled youths that isn't good. If they want to put Duquesne U. schools or programs up there, that's good for growth in the area.
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Originally Posted by alleghenyangel
Carrick and Sheraden might be declining, but they are still liveable areas. I don't think Troy Hill is in decline. It feels stagnant, though. I have no regrets about moving to my declining neighborhood, and it has been three years. If I ever sell, I'll break even but I won't make a profit. That's okay. There are streets in the East End that make Sheraden and Carrick look like Beverly Hills. Some of those East End hoods look as bad as Esplen. Lol
I really don't foresee Troy Hill declining. With adjacent Route 28 poised to be a full-service major highway into and out of the city shortly, with the neighborhood's great views, and with the continued scarcity of reasonably-priced housing in walkable neighborhoods in the urban core I only foresee the neighborhood continuing to stabilize. No, I don't foresee the neighborhood becoming the next Lawrenceville, and I'm perfectly fine with that. As I said I'm looking to LIVE in Troy Hill, not "invest" in Troy Hill. If I sell in a decade and just get back what I put into the property, or even a tad less, then so be it.
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Originally Posted by juliegt
Wow. Kitchen and bathroom in the basement. That combined with the demo and removal costs of the other structure would scare me off. But, with the right financing and sweat equity, it might be worth it. Personally, I'd add what it would cost to fix those flaws to my budget and buy a place in better shape to begin with. But you know what you can afford and what you're prepared to tackle.
I'm still very interested in the property, assuming I could somehow obtain financing. I'm looking at sub-$50,000 properties in safe walkable neighborhoods, and that's a category that is much scarcer than it used to be even just several years ago. I just love the exterior character and interior woodwork of this place; the curb appeal is to die for, in my humble opinion. I love narrow older streets, such as Lowrie Street. I could walk a few blocks to some great skyline views or to a few businesses.
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Originally Posted by Hopes
Although not hipsters, I met an openly gay couple who are homeowners in Troy Hill. They're sure hoping it turns on the upswing. And if gays moving into the Mexican War streets is what gentrified that area, Troy Hill might have a chance. I have no idea how many are up there, but SCR and his partner would make two gay couples at the very least. My son's friend moved there last year. She may be what people consider a hipster. If not, she definitely walks to the beat of her own drum. Oh, and I had a classmate last year who was just the coolest girl, she lived in Troy Hill too.
That's about it, isn't it? I have been spending a few afternoons a week in Troy Hill since the past spring. It's disappointing there aren't more businesses for me to kill time while I'm waiting. I'll add a drug store that doesn't have an over the counter selection of anything. I've never been in a drug store that was so sparse. But it has a pharmacist! There are doctors offices. I don't think there is a bank, not sure. Seems the only place to eat are the pizza places.
What else can I add about the area? The exact same guys sit on the street corner each day. I suspect they are drug dealers. Maybe I'm profiling but I've watched them sit on the same two street corners all summer. If they aren't dealing, that's an indication of how bored they are with the limited things to do there. They aren't scary. They couldn't hurt a fly if they tried. One is near 400lbs and can barely walk. Little kids had a lemonade stand a bock down the street for many weeks. Last summer I drove through at night and needed to ask for directions. Asked a couple of guys who were crossing the street, some people would automatically assume they were gang members. They were super sweet and very helpful.
Everyone seems friendly. I've had quite a few people strike up conversations with me. Definitely the lower end of the economic range but nice people. I haven't met too many of the elderly. I'm impressed by how many houses have window boxes and flower pots. There are a handful of hanging baskets on telephone poles. That's an indication that the area is trying to gentrify.
Decades ago, I lived on Spring Hill. Although I felt safe in both areas, I get a better vibe from Troy Hill. Spring Hill is more deserted. Troy Hill has way more people out in their yards, sitting on their front steps, and walking down the sidewalks. It's an equally diverse neighborhood. You see just as many of one race or another, just as many young people as old people, etc.
With the way Pittsburgh's housing prices are increasing, I'd say Troy Hill has a real chance of being on the upswing someday.
Thanks very much for your very informative reply, Hopes! It's reassuring to hear there's at least one other gay couple that owns property within the neighborhood. I know Pittsburgh overall is a very "live and let live"-oriented city, but with that being said the racial tensions not long ago between whites and blacks in the neighborhood made me worry that the "old-school" Pittsburghers here were of a different breed than those in much of the rest of the city.
I believe I saw the 400-lb. guy the last time we were exploring the neighborhood (not yesterday). He seemed harmless enough. He was just walking back-and-forth to the convenience store. Not to sound like a drug sympathizer, but I actually don't care if someone is dealing weed down the street from me as long as they don't jeopardize the safety or general well-being of me or my partner (I guess we're already adopting that "live and let live" mentality?) LOL! I've met more active marijuana users in Pittsburgh than in any other place I've lived, and all of these people have been harmless. Some are even in professional positions that may surprise you. If my next-door neighbors want to sit on their front stoop playing a ukelele, kicking a hackeysack, and smoking a joint, then more power to them. If they decide to break into my home to steal to support their addictions, then they can expect a club over the head.
There is indeed a bank in Troy Hill. It's an off-brand bank I've never heard of before. Since I already work for a bank in my primary position I don't need one, though. The people of Troy Hill seem friendly, albeit a bit nosy as some just stopped in their tracks and stared at us without blinking as we slowly drove by yesterday looking at "For Sale" signs. Then again I always feel like there are eyes following me when I'm out and about in Polish Hill, as well, so it's just something that doesn't really concern me. If anything it could be a good crime deterrent to have everyone so "nebby".
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Originally Posted by Goinback2011
In my opinion, anything along the Allegheny from Troy Hill up to Etna will appreciate over the next decade.
As a young person with a good work ethic, you have the opportunity to make a lot of money on housing investments over the next decade or two. You're much more likely to double your money rapidly in a transitioning neighborhood than in the East End.
And trust me, living in the East End loses its appeal the older you get.
I just had to bold your last sentence because I've also heard this and would be inclined to agree. Once you age you only really care about being near day-to-day conveniences, not necessarily everything that a business district in a place like Shadyside or Squirrel Hill would offer. I have to admit I'm probably one of the few Polish Hill residents who has no desire to go to Gooski's, which is right up the hill from me.
I'm not looking to be greedy and "make a lot of money on housing investments". I'm probably going to be one of the few prospective buyers looking at this home on Lowrie Street with the intention of making it my first primary residence---not a quick-flip or a quick-fix rental.
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Originally Posted by Drover
Troy Hill strikes me as just far enough off the beaten path and just disconnected enough from convenient public transit access to major hubs that it won't see East-End or War Streets-type price run-ups any time soon. Status-quo stability seems like the best you can hope for in the intermediate future, and even that could be in jeopardy as people who get gentrified out of once-rough neighborhoods look for cheap housing on the edges of where they're being pushed out of.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if I'm putting my money on the next "up and coming" neighborhood that's not already priced like it's arriving, it would be Beechview. Hipsters just love streetcars n'at. Beechview can be a gamble just like Troy Hill because of its proximity to destabilized neighborhoods, but handy public transit access could be the lifeline that rescues it.
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Originally Posted by bradjl2009
I'm surprised Beechview doesn't use this to its advantage as much as it should. This is the only neighborhood for a fairly long distance with streetcars but I think a lot of people don't think about Beechview becuase no main roads really go through the business district of the neighborhood.
What has kept me from being more optimistic about buying in a neighborhood like Beechview (or even Stowe Township for that matter) is that I desire a quick and hassle-free commute into and out of Oakland for my primary employer. While Beechview may have easy public transit access to Downtown you can't say the same for Oakland. It's a shame Pittsburgh's transit system is so Downtown-centric when Oakland is the state's third-largest CBD and employs nearly as many people as Downtown. The reason why the East End has been becoming so expensive as of late is that most new residents probably work in/around Oakland and don't want to deal with commuting hassles from the South Hills or West End.
My dream is to one day work Downtown because, in my opinion, Pittsburgh's Downtown is one of the best of all major American cities in terms of packing so much punch in such a small footprint. If that were the case today I'd pounce on Beechview. The notion of dealing with a long drive on narrow and busy surface streets (tedious) or taking the "T" to Downtown and then taking a bus to Oakland (tedious) turns me off to Beechview at this time.
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Originally Posted by eccotecc
SCR,
FWIW, My Dad sold his Mother's house on Polish Hill for $7,000. I know this is no consolation but I would suggest to follow your heart. You seem to been torn between a logical and emotional decision.
If this deal falls through for me due to my inability to secure financing for the reason(s) selltheburgh explains below then I should really begin to re-evaluate my home-buying process and instead see what the upper end of my limit is and see what's available nearer to that figure (and where). Right now I'm just hunting for cheap, cheaper, and cheapest. Perhaps I'd be better served buying a home that's $49,900 that requires less work, but this one home in particular just screamed at me because it's exactly what I envision my dream home looking like---at least from the exterior. Plus, my surname and the street name are pretty much the same, which is also cool.
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Originally Posted by Tirade
SCR,
I recently bought a house in Brookline after living in the East End for 10+ years. Prior to moving, I really thought I'd miss the East End, but it turns out that I don't miss it one bit. The East End served me well when I was younger, in college, and needed easy access to the campuses and places to meet up with friends. Now that those aren't priorities in my life, I could no longer justify the expense of living there. All I really need now is a walkable neighborhood with a market, bank, and library in walking distance, and there are plenty of non-East End neighborhoods that meet those needs at half the price.
My advice for you would be to spend a lot more time in your prospective neighborhood and get a good grasp of the area before making any decisions. Walk around the neighborhoods, walk from your property to the local businesses, visit the local businesses, try your commute out in rush hour, read the neighborhood church bulletins (they give a surprising good insight into the neighborhood even if you aren't religious). Although I've always liked Brookline, I didn't get really excited about it until I started spending a serious amount of non-shopping time there.
One more thing that may be relevant to your interests...I got my mortgage through PNC and it was a ****ing nightmare. Closing kept getting pushed back with no explanation or apology, and the seller threatened to back out of the sale due to frustration with the delayed closing. Everyone from my real estate agent to PNC mortgage employees to an actual PNC supervisor told me that is not uncommon with PNC. So if you go with them, beware and be prepared. Especially if you need to jump through FHA hoops. I'm willing to go into more detail about my experience over PMs to anyone who asks.
Thanks so much, Tirade. This reply is very helpful to me! I do plan to obtain my mortgage through PNC (primary employer) regardless because a colleague of mine just purchased his first home with a PNC mortgage and was given a $1,000 gift towards closing costs for being an employee and using our organization for his mortgage. Even if I have to deal with hoop-jumping and hassles it's still worth it to be given $1,000.
As a PNC employee I do apologize for the issues you had to endure. I'm in no way associated with our mortgage department (although that IS where I hope to propel myself into as I develop my career since I'm obssessed with mortgages), but I do like to take ownership and apologize when anyone who does business with us feels slighted for any reason. That PNC supervisor NEVER should tell our clients that hassles and delays are "not uncommon". The home-buying process is stressful enough, and your lender should try to make it easier---not more difficult. The supervisor should have apologized and tried to rectify the process---not shrugged it off and passed the buck. As a front-line employee I inwardly get irked when customers expect me to take ownership of mistakes my superiors have made, but when the shoe is on the other foot a supervisor should ALWAYS apologize for and take ownership for any inconveniences a customer may have endured as the result of a mistake by subordinates.
I also don't think I'd miss the East End much. My partner used to live in Shadyside within walking distance of, well, everything. I found myself at his place more than at my own place, but since he's moved here to Polish Hill I don't miss much about Shadyside---other than having a nearby corner store to pick up milk, chips, bread, ice cream, etc. (why doesn't Polish Hill have this, again?) I lean left politically, but I don't care if my neighbors lean right---as long as they're not far-right Westboro Baptist Church-oriented types. I drive a hybrid but don't care if my neighbors drive SUVs. Yes, I wish more people would transition towards using less gas to help prolong our limited global fossil fuel supply, but I'm not going to malign someone for their personal purchase decisions. I plan to hang a rainbow flag but will take it down if it offends my neighbors. I just want to be a good neighbor more than anything else, and I don't care if I'm surrounded by people who aren't like-minded.
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Originally Posted by Tirade
It's criminal that Beechview is as forgotten as it is. Walkable main street complete with T stops and several amenities. Affordable and non-dilapidated housing stock. A proud community. No scary crime statistics. I'm honestly baffled why we waste so much time here talking about redeveloping Hazelwood when Beechview seems like a much better gamble.
Hazelwood is a hop, skip, and a jump from being in the heart of Oakland. Beechview isn't. If I had a new job offer Downtown I'd buy in Beechview in a heartbeat to be in a safe, walkable neighborhood with "T" access. Believe it or not there are probably just as many (or nearly as many) positions being created right now in Oakland (also including the Second Avenue Technology Center), and to a lesser extent East End (i.e. Bakery Square) as there are in Downtown, but I'll defer to someone like BrianTH, Evergrey, or Gnutella who may have hard data on where jobs are being created within the city. The people who are new to working in Oakland, whom I meet on a daily basis and am assisting with their financial goals, are with rare exception living in the East End for commuting purposes, which is why the housing crunch in the East End is now becoming an issue. Many of these new hires are from abroad and are relying on public transit, which isn't the greatest getting from a place like Beechview to Oakland. I only have one regular customer at my workplace that I can think of that lives in the near-South Hills (Dormont). I have a couple of customers from Mt. Washington and South Side. The vast majority live in Shadyside (especially in/around Fifth Avenue), Squirrel Hill, Friendship, and Regent Square. There's also a weird cluster of customers who hail from Cranberry Township (coupled with very few living in the nearer North Hills townships like Hampton, McCandless, Pine, or Richland, which I thought was interesting).
If you're working on Second Avenue or in Oakland and are looking for entry-level housing in a transitional neighborhood then Hazelwood is just screaming at you. Beechview? Not so much.
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Originally Posted by Drover
The Sharp Edge needs to open an outpost right around Hampshire and Broadway. That'll be the catalyst that gets it goin'
For me if Burgatory opened in Troy Hill I'd pee myself!
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Originally Posted by Sideblinded
School districts and feeder patterns. Sadly the North side has been demolished regarding neighborhood schools. East End, (Allderdice) tends to be the most desirable. (higher priced) This is true for suburbs and city. It does not mean that area of the city is not worth investing in and moving to, it boils down to what is important to you.
I don't ever foresee Troy Hill becoming desirable for middle-class families not only for the below-average public school feeder pattern but also due to the cramped living quarters. This isn't the 1930s when three generations of the same family lived together in small homes out of financial necessity. Today not only do most households own vehicles but most households own multiple vehicles (including my own). Most families would want a yard larger than the postage stamp-sized ones offered in Troy Hill. Coupled with the proximity to other neighborhoods which are more questionable in terms of safety and Troy Hill's only chances for a rebirth are with attracting in the LGBT community, young professionals, artists, hipsters, DINKs, etc. Places like Greenfield and, yes, even Hazelwood have much better odds at attracting middle-class families again because they're within a good public school feeder pattern and have housing prices more reasonable than the rest of the non-war-zone parts of the East End (while also still being conveniently-located). I'd eventually like to raise children, but that's something that's still about a decade away for me due to my desire to wait to adopt until I'm financially secure (something MORE people in this city should do before pumping out kids, but that's for a separate rant). In the interim I can always buy in a neighborhood with sub-par schools and then "graduate" to buying a better home in Greenfield where I can raise children in a safe environment and send them to better public schools.
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Originally Posted by Caladium
These are all smart things to do, especially the tip about church bulletins. You're absolutely right that those bulletins can tell you a lot about neighborhoods.
Agreed.
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Originally Posted by selltheburgh
If the rear house is deeded with the little house that you love and as bad as AA says, then you will not be able to finance this. Also, if the bathroom is in the basement, you won't be able to finance this without a rehab or construction loan. A typical FHA or Conventional loan doesn't want the liability of lending on a house that comes with the hazard of a falling down home on the same property.
This sounds like a cash only type of property.
Also, if they are on the same parcel, they likely share utilities (sewage, water and possibly gas). That will be costly to cap off upon razing.
3.....2.....1....
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Originally Posted by selltheburgh
But to answer your original questions - yes. I wouldn't live anywhere else in Pgh other than the East End.
Just off of the top of my head, it has the most culture, many of the best restaurants, a large assortment of educated people, the most diversity, museums and libraries, art galleries, parks, walkable and bikeable neighborhoods, it is relatively flat, is home to the universities, grocery stores.
Troy Hill isn't a bad area based on my 10 or so times being there. It seems like a working class neighborhood with some gems, some derelict properties, and some average mill worker housing. I agree with what somebody else said above - it is isolated. It doesn't have the best bus access, it isn't very walkable, Rialto is closed for a quarter of the year (when 28 isn't being worked on) and it is lacking solid local businesses. Sure, you can walk down to Duetchtown and there are a few amenities there. You can walk to lawrenceville, but that's at least a half hour walk and probably not something you'd do regularly.
I've spoken to some other people about this who wouldn't live anywhere else besides the East End, but I personally think I COULD take the plunge and, gasp, cross one of the rivers! I never understood why the city closes Rialto Street in the winter. The city temporarily closes South Negley Avenue (the huge hill between Fifth and Fair Oaks) during inclement weather but reopens it once the road is treated and safe to traverse. Why doesn't the city just temporarily close Rialto Street in similar fashion during wintry weather and then reopen it once safe? Do the needs of the people of Squirrel Hill matter more to the city's politicians than the people in Troy Hill simply because the former are college-educated and affluent while the latter are not? Believe me, if I move to Troy Hill I'm not going to let the neighborhood's concerns fall upon deaf ears. Ideally I want to make a successful bid someday for city council, and if Troy Hill needs a voice, then that will be me!
I've spoken to some other people about this who wouldn't live anywhere else besides the East End, but I personally think I COULD take the plunge and, gasp, cross one of the rivers! I never understood why the city closes Rialto Street in the winter. The city temporarily closes South Negley Avenue (the huge hill between Fifth and Fair Oaks) during inclement weather but reopens it once the road is treated and safe to traverse. Why doesn't the city just temporarily close Rialto Street in similar fashion during wintry weather and then reopen it once safe? Do the needs of the people of Squirrel Hill matter more to the city's politicians than the people in Troy Hill simply because the former are college-educated and affluent while the latter are not? Believe me, if I move to Troy Hill I'm not going to let the neighborhood's concerns fall upon deaf ears. Ideally I want to make a successful bid someday for city council, and if Troy Hill needs a voice, then that will be me!
Rialto is one of the steepest hills in the city. S Negley is not.
Rialto is barely wide enough for 2 cars. S Negley is a pretty wide street up to the peak.
Also S Negley leads to a busy street, but not to a highway.
Additionally, people live on S Negley between Fifth and Fair Oaks while Rialto does not have residents on the steep part.
I'm sure traffic engineers have more say in this than you think and it isn't a conspiracy against the people of Pig Hill. Berry Hill in O'Hara Twp closes because of the steepness and bad weather as well.
Rialto is one of the steepest hills in the city. S Negley is not.
Rialto is barely wide enough for 2 cars. S Negley is a pretty wide street up to the peak.
Also S Negley leads to a busy street, but not to a highway.
Additionally, people live on S Negley between Fifth and Fair Oaks while Rialto does not have residents on the steep part.
I'm sure traffic engineers have more say in this than you think and it isn't a conspiracy against the people of Pig Hill. Berry Hill in O'Hara Twp closes because of the steepness and bad weather as well.
Fair enough. I just couldn't comprehend why they'd temporarily close one street, salt it, and then reopen it while just closing another street for an entire season, regardless of the weather. It just seemed like the city was too lazy to treat the road in the same manner. For what it's worth I'm familiar with Berryhill Road, and that road, like South Negley, is also closed ONLY during inclement weather---not for the entire season. Rialto Street being closed just adds to Troy Hill being viewed as being "too isolated" to be fully absorbed into the urban core of the city. I can't think of any other example in the metro area where a major road is closed all winter and just not treated.
You will definitely have trouble with an FHA loan on this house (other than the 203K, which you'd have to decide if the cost of repairs is worth it or not.) However there are places doing conventional mortgages for just 5% down so you could try for that. A straight FHA loan is definitely going to complain about things like fuses instead of circuit breakers and water damage in the kitchen. You could also consider making a lowball cash offer, that way you would only have the title fees and transfer taxes as closing costs. Mortgages tack on a lot of extra fees and make you prepay property taxes into an escrow account at closing. I could easily see closing costs being several thousand plus whatever your down payment is.
You said you're not one of those "loud" gay couples, however I do think that flying a rainbow flag on Troy Hill would be perceived as "loud." (It would be competing with all the Stiller flags after all!). Not sure that it would lead to problems, but it's virtually guaranteed to bother somebody.
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I never understood why the city closes Rialto Street in the winter. The city temporarily closes South Negley Avenue (the huge hill between Fifth and Fair Oaks) during inclement weather but reopens it once the road is treated and safe to traverse. Why doesn't the city just temporarily close Rialto Street in similar fashion during wintry weather and then reopen it once safe? Do the needs of the people of Squirrel Hill matter more to the city's politicians than the people in Troy Hill simply because the former are college-educated and affluent while the latter are not? Believe me, if I move to Troy Hill I'm not going to let the neighborhood's concerns fall upon deaf ears. Ideally I want to make a successful bid someday for city council, and if Troy Hill needs a voice, then that will be me! 
