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Old 09-27-2012, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
13,578 posts, read 14,335,422 times
Reputation: 11438

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This was the hardest one yet. In retrospect, I should have split the region into two somehow, but there were no logical splits (except that Hays/New Homestead/Lincoln Place didn't need to go here, but I didn't know where to put them in any case).

One note here is I decided to not include, for the most part, the actual main thoroughfares through South Pittsburgh (Banksville Road, West Liberty Avenue, Library Road, and Saw Mill Run Boulevard) in the neighborhoods. This was for a few reasons.

1. The roads tend to divide neighborhoods, not run through them.
2. The topography means these commercial districts aren't well linked to the hilly neighborhoods above.
3. In most places, only a handful of people actually live on or near these streets, since most of the housing was cleared out to make way for commercial ventures.

Anyway, next to the West End (which will be my last map, unless I do the burbs), I probably know the least about South Pittsburgh. I'd be most interested if you guys think I should divide up a few neighborhoods, as some (like Brookline) are huge!

Completed Maps:

Northside
Downtown/Hill/Oakland
Upper East End
Lower East End
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
6,324 posts, read 8,230,369 times
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Good map like all the other ones. All your maps so far have given a good truthful view of Pittsburgh's neighborhoods. I don't know if I'd call Carrick Napalese yet however. Sure there was an article in the paper about some living there, but I doubt they make more than 5% of the neighborhood's population.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:09 PM
 
Location: St. Paul, MN
320 posts, read 786,058 times
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Just a thought on your Northside map (I searched but couldn't find a thread for it). I'm fascinated by good/bad neighborhoods and how they change over time, and Pittsburgh is by far my favorite city. You have the populated areas immediately bordering Northview Heights labeled as "in serious decline." Are you aware of a trend of these neighborhoods specifically to be in serious decline due to their proximity to the projects (spillover crime or something of the like)? When I drove through them, I thought they looked pretty average, surprisingly good for being right next to the projects. Is this changing? I'd guess that these neighborhoods have been right next to the projects for as long as the projects have existed, and the projects don't look new, so I'd be surprised if they're declining more recently than they have been for years. Is crime spiking or something of the like?

Pittsburgh has a surprising number of projects located in and near otherwise safe neighborhoods. Spring Hill is my favorite neighborhood in Pittsburgh, and even it has a little project in the middle of it. I have never felt unsafe driving or walking near it though. Maybe they're selective with who gets to live there, and they put the real criminals in Northview Heights? Who knows.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:28 PM
 
1,901 posts, read 3,951,111 times
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IMO similar to what you stated in the description of Knoxville, Upper Knoxville is a gang neighborhood in despair just like Beltzhoover... When the hardcore thugs and druggies from St. Clair Village relocated there it just made it a ghetto worse... Upper Knoxville (North of Buasman) has been a racially mixed ghetto since the 90's.. It was gang active in early 90's although the Arlington Heights Projects, Beltzhoover & the St. Clair Village Projects were worse and got more attention. Though the 32 Ward and McKenny sections (south of Buasman) are really in decline.
Arlington isn't spiraling into deep decline either... It's been in the same bad shape for 10yrs, but I understand that ghetto might not work for it either.

[quote]Just a thought on your Northside map (I searched but couldn't find a thread for it). I'm fascinated by good/bad neighborhoods and how they change over time, and Pittsburgh is by far my favorite city. You have the populated areas immediately bordering Northview Heights labeled as "in serious decline." Are you aware of a trend of these neighborhoods specifically to be in serious decline due to their proximity to the projects (spillover crime or something of the like)? When I drove through them, I thought they looked pretty average, surprisingly good for being right next to the projects. Is this changing? I'd guess that these neighborhoods have been right next to the projects for as long as the projects have existed, and the projects don't look new, so I'd be surprised if they're declining more recently than they have been for years. Is crime spiking or something of the like?[quote]

Northview Heights excluding the projects isn't a high crime area. It's just old, odd area that's too close to the 3rd worst section in Pittsburgh for most people's liking.
Three Rivers Manor (the section 8 complex in Spring Hill-City View) is very bad... So far this year there's been a homicide and three major shootings over there. This isn't anything new; it's been rough and gang affilaited for a while now, but luckily it's isolated from other bad areas on the Northside... Therefore it's not as gang active as Allegheny Dwellings in Fineview or North View Heights Estates.

Last edited by Uptown kid; 09-27-2012 at 09:43 PM..
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:09 AM
 
1,720 posts, read 1,895,091 times
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These maps should all be pinned to the top of the board. It doesn't get any better than this when it comes to describing the individual city neighborhoods.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Highland Park
172 posts, read 300,969 times
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This map is as good as all the others, and it should indeed be pinned to the top of the board. A great resource, presented incredibly well.

One quibble: you've colored South Side Flats purple (i.e., upper middle class), which seems wrong. While the property values are high and there are more than a few high-paid professionals in residence, the large student population and the remaining senior population both suggest that calling the Flats upper middle class is premature. You colored most of Shadyside pink to take into account the large proportion of students and renters there; I think you should do the same here.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
13,578 posts, read 14,335,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Magarac View Post
This map is as good as all the others, and it should indeed be pinned to the top of the board. A great resource, presented incredibly well.

One quibble: you've colored South Side Flats purple (i.e., upper middle class), which seems wrong. While the property values are high and there are more than a few high-paid professionals in residence, the large student population and the remaining senior population both suggest that calling the Flats upper middle class is premature. You colored most of Shadyside pink to take into account the large proportion of students and renters there; I think you should do the same here.
No offense, but either I or you I might be a bit color blind, or you might need a new monitor, because I remember you had some issues with the colors on the last map. South side flats is deep blue, signifying a mostly gentrified area. The only purple on this map is the strip along Grandview, and that little development over in West Homestead.

I'll take a look at the student question in more detail tonight. I know South Side is popular with Duquense students now, but I never thought of it as a student-dominated area the way Shadyside is. It seems like the rowhouses are skipping right from neighborhood houses to $400,000 yuppie abodes, and the new apartments are kind of pricey for most undergrads.

Last edited by eschaton; 09-28-2012 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Highland Park
172 posts, read 300,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
No offense, but either I or you I might be a bit color blind, or you might need a new monitor, because I remember you had some issues with the colors on the last map. South side flats is deep blue, signifying a mostly gentrified area. The only purple on this map is the strip along Grandview, and that little development over in West Homestead.
The problem is on my end. The distinction between purple and deep blue is either lost on my monitor or lost on my eyes. As for the student population, I am pretty confident in saying that there is a large, not a small, contingent of college students and/or people just out of college on the South Side. They're the ones who lead a lot of the drinking on weekends.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
13,578 posts, read 14,335,422 times
Reputation: 11438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Magarac View Post
The problem is on my end. The distinction between purple and deep blue is either lost on my monitor or lost on my eyes.
I'll try and see if I can find a better blue. Google doesn't give many options for colors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Magarac View Post
As for the student population, I am pretty confident in saying that there is a large, not a small, contingent of college students and/or people just out of college on the South Side. They're the ones who lead a lot of the drinking on weekends.
20somethings are by far the biggest bar drinkers in general, and you'd have to be blind not to notice that in South Side (although there are many bars that cater to older drinkers there too). That said, I always assumed many of the weekend warriors drove in.

Regardless, I consider Shadyside to be somewhat of a student ghetto not merely because it has a lot of students/near students, but also because it has a high number of apartment complexes which cater to students, and ratty subdivided houses. I just don't see the same thing in South Side. The houses, when they come on the market, seem to be snapped up by yuppies, and the few new apartments going on the market are catering to a higher end than most (non-wealthy) students can afford.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Highland Park
172 posts, read 300,969 times
Reputation: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Regardless, I consider Shadyside to be somewhat of a student ghetto not merely because it has a lot of students/near students, but also because it has a high number of apartment complexes which cater to students, and ratty subdivided houses. I just don't see the same thing in South Side. The houses, when they come on the market, seem to be snapped up by yuppies, and the few new apartments going on the market are catering to a higher end than most (non-wealthy) students can afford.
A lot of South Side houses don't come on the market because they are (rather profitable) student rentals. I think that if you check Duquesne's website, craigslist, etc., you'll see this. Blogs talk about it, and even the wikipedia article on the Flats notes that it is home to a large student population. The student-age population was 16.5% in 2000 and has only increased since then.
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