What is pittsburgh? midwest or northeast or...Other??? (Philadelphia, York: college, bills)

[LIRefugee]

Originally Posted by GregHenry

I don't know why Pittsburgh people use "PGH" instead of "PIT."

"PGH" is pronounced "PIG."

"PIT" is the preferable truncation among these slim pickings.

Two dead horses for the price of one!

If you seek hours of amusement, you may review a recently locked discussion on this matter here.

Have fun!

Pittsburgh is sui generis.

[GregHenry]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

Pittsburgh is sui generis.

[BrianTH]

The problem with any regional classification that treats states as fundamental units, such as the Census divisions, is that it necessarily must put all of any given state in one region or another. But in cases such as Pennsylvania, that will not necessarily make sense in terms of history, culture, economics, and so on.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The problem with any regional classification that treats states as fundamental units, such as the Census divisions, is that it necessarily must put all of any given state in one region or another. But in cases such as Pennsylvania, that will not necessarily make sense in terms of history, culture, economics, and so on.

You have to balance things. State borders are not the end all and be all, but it's just as foolish to ignore them too. Philly has a presence, and influence here, that they wouldn't have if Pittsburgh were part of West Virginia.

[BrianTH]

As an aside, it is an open question how much being in the same state adds to substantive relationships between cities that would exist anyway. Certainly there are many examples of close relationships between municipalities which cross state borders (including many multi-state MSAs and CSAs), and Pittsburgh and Philly would likely have had a lot of the same historic interaction even if they had been in different states--consider, in fact, the long-standing interactions between Pittsburgh and NYC.

In any event, my point was that Census definitions which treat states as fundamental units don't actually try to sort any of this out. And, in fact, the Census divisions/regions can slash right through what the Census Bureau otherwise recognizes as MSAs and CSAs--for example, part of the Philly MSA is in Delaware and Maryland. Again, this just shows that the Census divisions/regions scheme isn't even trying to identify and group together areas on the basis of their substantive ties.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

As an aside, it is an open question how much being in the same state adds to substantive relationships between cities that would exist anyway. Certainly there are many examples of close relationships between municipalities which cross state borders (including many multi-state MSAs and CSAs), and Pittsburgh and Philly would likely have had a lot of the same historic interaction even if they had been in different states.

.

There is some truth in that, but being in the same state does make a difference. The ties between Pittsburgh and Philly are stronger than those between Pittsburgh and Baltimore, even though Baltimore is closer. Having gone to school here, one of the biggest factors in the moving of certain trends from the coast, to Pittsburgh, is the fact that many Philly area students go to college in Pittsburgh, many Pittsburgh area natives go to school in Philly, and others from all parts of the state mix at Penn State, as well as the 14 state schools. When I was in school, the Philly kids were always introducing us to the latest trends out of Philly and New York. Ohio kids tend to go to Big Ten, and MAC schools.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

There is some truth in that, but being in the same state does make a difference.

Obviously it makes a difference in certain specific ways, but the question is how much it really adds to other factors in less obvious ways.

The ties between Pittsburgh and Philly are stronger than those between Pittsburgh and Baltimore, even though Baltimore is closer.

Of course there are lots of possible explanatory factors for that beside just being in the same state. You'd have to control for all those possible factors, not just distance as the crow flies, before being able to isolate what was really attributable to being in the same state.

When I was in school, the Philly kids were always introducing us to the latest trends out of Philly and New York.

I think you are sorta making my point there.

[BrianTH]

By the way, dialect maps like this are interesting to contemplate in this context, particularly since they also trace historic migration patterns:



Notably they don't strictly track state boundaries, and really it was more things like transportation paths, agricultural/industrial zones, and so forth that determined the historic migration patterns and subsequent dialect patterns.

And Philly and Pittsburgh happen to end up in the same territory in his map, but not really because they were in the same state per se.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

By the way, dialect maps like this are interesting to contemplate in this context, particularly since they also trace historic migration patterns:



Notably they don't strictly track state boundaries, and really it was more things like transportation paths, agricultural/industrial zones, and so forth that determined the historic migration patterns and subsequent dialect patterns.

And Philly and Pittsburgh happen to end up in the same territory in his map, but not really because they were in the same state per se.

Pittsburgh, and Philly being in the same state did give the two cities an advantage in their competition against Baltimore and Wheeling. Business interests only had to lobby one set of legislators, where the Baltimore/Wheeling interests had to try to coordinate two. Philly and Pittsburgh interests worked hard to promote the Philly-Pittsburgh axis, over the Baltimore-Wheeling axis, and both ends being in one state facilitated their efforts. It's not a coincidence that the Pennsylvania Railroad became much more powerful than the B&O.

[Katarina Witt]

^^I agree. And just look at the Pittsburgh-Cleveland divide. These two cities are only ~ 100 miles apart. Cleveland is closer to Pittsburgh than ANY other major city, yet there doesn't seem to be much of an "axis" there.