questions about the legality of renting out a room in pittsburgh (Homestead: rent, homes)

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

.

As a side note, if mail is being directed to the renter's address, this is generally all that is needed to align residency to the rental if the zoning board needed to challenge the property owner of the violation. Many college town landlords used this trick to find the "extra roommate" not listed or paying on the lease

Get a PO box.


It's tough to prove. Even here, in the Great Towne of McCandless we have problems like that. Seriously, we have a woman in our little enclave that is renting out rooms. Cars are parked all over the street, she even put in an additional concrete parking area. We all attended a zoning hearing to see what could be done, NOTHING. It has to be proven that she has x amount of non-family members living there. Thinking about moving back to Turtle Creek, better neighbors.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Get a PO box.


It's tough to prove. Even here, in the Great Towne of McCandless we have problems like that. Seriously, we have a woman in our little enclave that is renting out rooms. Cars are parked all over the street, she even put in an additional concrete parking area. We all attended a zoning hearing to see what could be done, NOTHING. It has to be proven that she has x amount of non-family members living there. Thinking about moving back to Turtle Creek, better neighbors.

The idea of a PO box never occurred to most of us.... at that time, we were always seeking the cheapest and easiest way to do things.

As neighbors, there is little that you may be able to say that will have any direct impact upon your local officials..... money speaks loudest. In McCandless, as well as, most communities in the Pittsburgh region, property owners/landlords are required to forward the names of any person residing in their home(s) for taxing purposes (per capita & local wage taxes), or face paying a minimal fine of noncompliance. This is how the infamous Al Capone was finally imprisoned.... he did not give the taxman his due, and it cost him dearly! I am not saying equating your neighbor with a convicted criminal, but I am saying that she is placing herself legally at risk if she is not addressing all of the tax and insurance-related implications. Your neighbor may never be called to task, but I don't know if it would be worth all of the potential problems for the income generated.

[greg42]

I think Retiredcoach appears to be conflating two different aspects here, perhaps unintentionally.

There IS sometimes an issue of what is a legal occupancy for a bedroom in building code, particularly fire code. Generally it comes down to if there is not a large enough window for a second method of egress, then it is in most (all?) cases not supposed to be a bedroom. Many renovations require an occupancy permit that would take such elements into account, but if no changes have been made for decades you may just have space that may or may not be legal as a bedroom by current code.

This is a SEPARATE issue, though, from whether or not it is permissible to rent out a room without some kind of permit.

They could come together though in some scenarios we could dream up. What is quite probably true is that you can rent out a room with nothing. But. If someone is annoyed with that and the "bedroom" you are renting out is not up to code, someone may be able to cause trouble for you by alerting the building inspectors, who could shut down such an arrangement at least until changes were made to bring the room to code (as verified by another inspection).

You might also have liability issues if there is, god forbid, a fire. You might want to check with your insurance agent about such things regarding homeowner's insurance, both just for having a paying boarder and for if the room is a questionable bedroom.

[morningsiderules]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

The rules for renting a property (or a portion of your property) are subject to more legalities than simply opening your home for rental. The first question you need to ask yourself is whether your attic would pass an inspection if a permit is required for occupancy. If it is being rented as a bedroom, does it have a window? Is there a means to escape a fire if the main entrance to the attic would somehow be engulfed in flames .... is there a fire escape? To be classified as a bedroom, the attic must have a closet... does yours? These are just some of the questions that you are expected to answer positively if renting your property to a non-family member, and there are likely many more.

I cannot give you a definitive answer as to whether you need an occupancy permit to rent a portion of your home, but I personally would not have rented any portion of my home without clarification, or authorization from my local zoning office. Most communities require occupancy permits to rent any portion of your house, especially when so many tried renting their basements for the quick buck years ago. You are opening yourself to a whirlwind of potential legal problems and insurance questions if you take the advice of the knowledgeably-challenged, anonymous posters on an open forum. Do yourself a favor (and fast!)- meet with your zoning officer, get the occupancy permit (if required), and rent only if you are able to stay within the parameters of the law.

It is being rented as a bedroom and it has a closet and a window. There is no fire escape, but we bought a fire ladder for our use and left it there for our roomie.

What is a zoning officer and where do I inquire about this? I have looked around on the Internet and I haven't turned up anything. That's why I'm here getting advice from you guys.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by morningsiderules

What is a zoning officer and where do I inquire about this? I have looked around on the Internet and I haven't turned up anything. That's why I'm here getting advice from you guys.

City of Pittsburgh Zoning/Development Review

[morningsiderules]

Originally Posted by greg42

I think Retiredcoach appears to be conflating two different aspects here, perhaps unintentionally.

There IS sometimes an issue of what is a legal occupancy for a bedroom in building code, particularly fire code. Generally it comes down to if there is not a large enough window for a second method of egress, then it is in most (all?) cases not supposed to be a bedroom. Many renovations require an occupancy permit that would take such elements into account, but if no changes have been made for decades you may just have space that may or may not be legal as a bedroom by current code.

This is a SEPARATE issue, though, from whether or not it is permissible to rent out a room without some kind of permit.

They could come together though in some scenarios we could dream up. What is quite probably true is that you can rent out a room with nothing. But. If someone is annoyed with that and the "bedroom" you are renting out is not up to code, someone may be able to cause trouble for you by alerting the building inspectors, who could shut down such an arrangement at least until changes were made to bring the room to code (as verified by another inspection).

You might also have liability issues if there is, god forbid, a fire. You might want to check with your insurance agent about such things regarding homeowner's insurance, both just for having a paying boarder and for if the room is a questionable bedroom.

Thanks. I'm starting to see that people feel very strongly about this. It actually never occurred to me. I always had roommates in my younger pre married days. always. but I have never been a home owner. I'm going to call my insurance company and talk with them.

Besides my insurance company, with whom do you suggest I inquire to get more clarification about this? This zoning office everyone is talking about actually seems applicable to home improvements.

I'm pretty confused. But, thanks everyone for the info.

Also, I called my real estate agent and he was as baffled as I was that anyone would suggest that having a roommate could be illegal.

[morningsiderules]

Originally Posted by Hopes

City of Pittsburgh Zoning/Development Review

Thanks. I'll try giving them a call.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by morningsiderules

Thanks. I'm starting to see that people feel very strongly about this. It actually never occurred to me. I always had roommates in my younger pre married days. always. but I have never been a home owner. I'm going to call my insurance company and talk with them.

Besides my insurance company, with whom do you suggest I inquire to get more clarification about this? This zoning office everyone is talking about actually seems applicable to home improvements.

I'm pretty confused. But, thanks everyone for the info.

Also, I called my real estate agent and he was as baffled as I was that anyone would suggest that having a roommate could be illegal.

There is a significant difference as to what constitutes a roommate and a tenant. If your roommate is paying a monthly check directly to you to live in your property, he/she is your tenant. He/she would therefore be granted all of the rights contained in Pennsylvania landlord/tenant laws (including 30 day written notice of moving, a safe & secure living environment, rights of privacy, etc.). If there is no written lease, your arrangement is viewed as a month-to-month tenancy. You are not going to able to get a reliable answer from your real estate agent, your insurance agent, or most posters (unless they are attorneys) on this board. Your best option would be to consult a real estate attorney. Failure to do so could cost you significantly more than you might want to risk, and ignorance (or lousy advice) cannot be an excuse, especially when so many are looking for reasons to sue.

[morningsiderules]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

There is a significant difference as to what constitutes a roommate and a tenant. If your roommate is paying a monthly check directly to you to live in your property, he/she is your tenant. He/she would therefore be granted all of the rights contained in Pennsylvania landlord/tenant laws (including 30 day written notice of moving, a safe & secure living environment, rights of privacy, etc.). If there is no written lease, your arrangement is viewed as a month-to-month tenancy. You are not going to able to get a reliable answer from your real estate agent, your insurance agent, or most posters (unless they are attorneys) on this board. Your best option would be to consult a real estate attorney. Failure to do so could cost you significantly more than you might want to risk, and ignorance (or lousy advice) cannot be an excuse, especially when so many are looking for reasons to sue.

Why do I feel like I'm being scolded by my dad? I came to this forum worried about my neighbor turning me in for an illegal renter and now I'm worried about my house burning down and my roommate suing me. I'm also a little preoccupied about appearing ignorant in a public form. LOL!

But, seriously, thank you for the advice, Retiredcoach. I will contact an attorney.

Recommendations, anyone?

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by morningsiderules

Why do I feel like I'm being scolded by my dad? I came to this forum worried about my neighbor turning me in for an illegal renter and now I'm worried about my house burning down and my roommate suing me. I'm also a little preoccupied about appearing ignorant in a public form. LOL!

But, seriously, thank you for the advice, Retiredcoach. I will contact an attorney.

Recommendations, anyone?

Sorry, I apologize for coming across that way (not by sounding like your dad, but for sounding like I was scolding you). I hate to see anyone being hurt through no fault of their own. Is your dad one heckuva guy, or what???