Recession over in Pittsburgh (Philadelphia, Denver: flat fee, purchasing, prices)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by sealie

Let me introduce you to the preceding generation, Generation X, which is seemingly still invisible to millennials. Average first time homebuyer has been over 30 for years. Marriage and first child, for college educated individuals, early thirties in many cases (personal experience, I don't have numbers).

Yes, even among us "Boomers" that was the case.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by sealie

Let me introduce you to the preceding generation, Generation X, which is seemingly still invisible to millennials. Average first time homebuyer has been over 30 for years. Marriage and first child, for college educated individuals, early thirties in many cases (personal experience, I don't have numbers).

Id consider people in their early thirties millennials now considering they were born in the early 80's and graduated high school around 2000.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Yes, even among us "Boomers" that was the case.

I suppose things were just different in the area I grew up within where people in my parents' generation were getting married, having children, and buying homes in their early-to-mid-20's instead of their mid-30s because you either didn't need a college education to do well professionally OR a college education was much more attainable for middle-class families. It's just a shame that by the time I become a grandparent someday I'll be dead before my grandchildren are out of their diapers.

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by Clint.

With that in mind, though, I don't see how anyone can call this a successful recovery considering the long-term picture - working and middle class wages have stagnated for decades, people have dropped out of the workforce, many are destined to work low paying retail, food, and other low paid service industry jobs for their careers. These are structural problems many decades in the making and I'm not sure how seriously they will ever be addressed. Maybe once the baby boomers are gone, the effects of globalization will have stabilized, and American people get their political senses in order, but that will mean at least a few 'lost generations'.

Should be interested when these generations of lifetime $8-13 an hour workers hits retirement with no savings, without paid off houses, and small social security payments because their average contributions have been awful for decades. A lifetime of poverty tends to send a lot of people to an early grave, so there's that.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

I wonder if the new income-based repayment plan for newer loans will ease some of these future default rates. One would have to be guilty of some serious financial mismanagement to not make their payments under IBR, even at the lowest levels of poverty. At said lowest levels, you're virtually paying nothing back. A nightmare for taxpayers, potentially, but not for the individuals paying the loans back.

Yes Sparrow with the IBR plan many borrowers with high amounts of student loan debt barely pay a portion of the interest and they have to do this for 25 years to have the remaining balance relieved. Unless they qualify for the public service student loan forgiveness program, which relieves the remaining balance in 10 years. However, this seems a bit crazy since the borrower could essentially never pay a single penny toward the principal of said student loan and eventually have it relieved. The IBR is definitely helping to keep student loan payments artificially low when compared to mortgages and other loan products that do not offer such breaks.

IBRinfo :: What are these programs?

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

According to that CNN article, student loan debt is growing faster than 10 percent per year:

The looming crisis of student loan debt - CNN.com

Too bad the kids don't understand exponents before they take out those loans. Do you think that's intentional?

Yes I just guessed 10%, but the real number is actually much higher, especially if student loan debt is just rising by the nationwide average in the Pittsburgh area.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Is this where I am supposed to say I am rubber and you are glue?

Well you and some of the other rah rah cheerleader folks are not connecting all of the dots with this issue. Several posters mentioned earlier in this thread that the Pittsburgh workforce is now very highly educated and some have posted sources stating that the younger, college educated Pittsburgh workforce is growing. Additionally, some have mentioned that Pittsburgh may have one of the most educated workforces in the entire country. Well at face value that sounds great until we look at a few more issues:

1) Home ownership rates in Pittsburgh are below the national average (50% in Pittsburgh vs. 65% national average). This means that less people in the Pittsburgh metro have mortgage debt than comparable cities.
2) A highly educated workforce means high levels of student loan debt, especially when you couple that with the extremely high cost of higher education in the Pittsburgh area and the entire state for that matter.
3) Pittsburgh is one of the few cities in the country with rising levels of personal debt. You tried to write it off as more people taking on mortgages and housing prices rising, but I disagree with this assertion. Student loan debt is a major issue nationwide and it could be an issue that severely impacts the economy of Pittsburgh in the near future.

I have enjoyed arguing with you so far and I do appreciate all the facts you bring to the table and the informed opinions you offer with your discussion.

[Clint.]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I suppose things were just different in the area I grew up within where people in my parents' generation were getting married, having children, and buying homes in their early-to-mid-20's instead of their mid-30s because you either didn't need a college education to do well professionally OR a college education was much more attainable for middle-class families. It's just a shame that by the time I become a grandparent someday I'll be dead before my grandchildren are out of their diapers.

People are getting married later (and less often) than at any time in at least the last 125 years. Maybe longer. Which is odd, because marriage tends to improve a person's financial situation, especially if they are both low income. Cohabitation has a similar effect, though...maybe if adjusted to consider unmarried but cohabitating the numbers aren't so bad. But I doubt it.

I suspect that the last cohort to commonly do all of those things (marry, get a secure and solid career with or without college, buy a house, car, have kids, etc,) at a young age and without much debt were those born 1920 - 1930. Their childhood and/or adolescent/teenage years were during the Great Depression, but they benefited from the post WWII economic boom just as they entered adulthood. The ones who got set back the most were probably born around 1910 or so. Luck (as in, among other things, when and where a person is born) is definitely a factor when considering broad questions about generational success.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I suppose things were just different in the area I grew up within where people in my parents' generation were getting married, having children, and buying homes in their early-to-mid-20's instead of their mid-30s because you either didn't need a college education to do well professionally OR a college education was much more attainable for middle-class families. It's just a shame that by the time I become a grandparent someday I'll be dead before my grandchildren are out of their diapers.

You grew up in a more rural part of the state. Rural people tend to marry younger.

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

It's just a shame that by the time I become a grandparent someday I'll be dead before my grandchildren are out of their diapers.

Not to worry--if you have children in your 30s, and your kids take the same path, that still means you will only be in your 60s when the grandkids are born. American males born in 1986 have an average life expectancy of 74 years, and you'll probably beat that average, since it's pulled down by the number of males being killed in their 20s as part of a crime, as a soldier or in a car accident. So you'll probably live to your 80s or older and live to see your grandkids graduate from college and start careers. Hopefully, they'll have ditched the diapers by then.