An Alarming Number Of Businesses Are Leaving East Liberty (Pittsburgh: sale, income)

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by CFP

do you understand why the developers fabricated the term eastside? if not i will explain it to you

I do understand it. East Liberty + Shadyside = Eastside. I don't see what that has to do with anything. If you're implying that it only worked because nobody knew it was in East Liberty, that's absurd. It worked because it was needed and well done and the location was very convenient to people. Everybody who was here when it went in knows where the border is, but I'd bet somebody who comes in five year from now won't know what neighborhood he is in when he crosses the busway. That's not fabricating a term. That's winning.

[CFP]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

That's winning.

what are you, charlie sheen?

they called it eastside so the residents of shadyside wouldn't have the perception that they were going to shop in east liberty, and because they could easily get there from center avenue/negley or from the highland avenue bridge it worked

that formula fails to work for penn avenue or broad street which is why those places are still suffering from the urban planning mistakes from the 70's, and as long as there is a huge area of low income housing to the northeast of the circle the negative perception will persist

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by CFP

finally the other voice of reason has arrived, the voice that has accurately pointed out on several occasions that the proximity of low-income housing to east liberty is the Achilles heel in the gentrification plan

just look at the map
http://oi41.tinypic.com/ehd4l5.jpg
Google Maps

and a close-up aerial view which looks like detroit
http://oi44.tinypic.com/3130rcz.jpg
Google Maps

The majority of your map is the neighborhood of Larimer. Lots of vacant parcels and vacant buildings-but it isn't all subsidized low-income housing. Is mostly vacant with a mix of homeowners & renters.

That area has cleaned up a lot too but it obviously has a long way to go.

[Joe Magarac]

Originally Posted by CFP

they called it eastside so the residents of shadyside wouldn't have the perception that they were going to shop in east liberty, and because they could easily get there from center avenue/negley or from the highland avenue bridge it worked

I don't think you are giving the good people of Shadyside enough credit here. I have a lot of friends who live there now or have lived there recently, and even more friends who live in Friendship and Highland Park. I myself lived in Bloomfield for ten years and now live in Highland Park. And the notion that I or anyone else decided to shop at Eastside because the name made us think that we weren't in East Liberty is just silly. For a while after it opened, I didn't even know it had a name - I just went there because it had stores (including but not limited to the liquor store!) that I wanted to patronize.

I think I get what you have been saying here - which appears to be that it is one thing (and a good thing) for the projects in East Liberty to be torn down and for businesses like Home Depot, Whole Foods, Target, Trader Joe's, and so on to go up - but that we are not yet at the point where people with spending money will feel comfortable walking around East Liberty - especially on Penn and Broad - as opposed to driving into parking lots on the edges, getting what they need, and then driving back home.

I get that, but I think you are being a bit overly pessimistic. I have been living near East Liberty since 2001 and the changes in it since that time have been nothing short of breathtaking. Ten years ago, when you still had to drive under the crack stacks to get into or out of the neighborhood, I would not have dreamed about walking around on Penn - and I'm a fairly young and fairly large guy. Now my wife and I will walk through the "low income" area you speak of to get to Dinette or Paris 66, and I take my kids to the McDonald's on Penn Circle. Are we a little out of place there? Sure. But we're there - something I would not have thought possible a decade ago.

To put things another way, there is a huge area of low income housing near downtown. You can see its residents milling about downtown in exactly the same way that their low income compatriots mill around East Liberty. There have been shootings downtown and random acts of violence downtown and in East Liberty, and all of them have involved this same demographic. But downtown is not a wasteland - it has a mix of incomes, a mix that is becoming higher-end with each passing year. It's getting harder and harder to find a good wig shop downtown, and the same thing is happening in East Liberty. And when the Highland building is rented out, there will be even more and more of a high-end mix of pedestrians and stores with each passing year.

Long story short, is there an element of hype and hucksterism to East Liberty? Sure there is; it's real estate development, which has featured booms and busts and frauds and speculators since the beginning of time. But is there something of substance to it, too? Absolutely. If you got out a map and a compass, and drew a circle that included everything within three miles of East Liberty Presbyterian as the center, the inside of that circle would be the single wealthiest and best-educated three-mile circle in Western Pennsylvania. That is true even though the circle would also include some or all of Garfield, Larimer, Homewood, etc.

More than the North Hills or South Hills or Monroeville or Robinson, the area around East Liberty has an incredible number of well-educated people with money to spend, and East Liberty is a natural market center for them. That's why so much money has been and is being spent on revitalizing it, and that's why I think people here have reacted in such disbelief to your initial and subsequent posts.

[eschaton]

It deserves mentioning the city border of East Liberty is Centre Avenue, thus "Eastside" is in Shadyside, just like the Shakespeare Giant Eagle.

[LIRefugee]

Originally Posted by eschaton

It deserves mentioning the city border of East Liberty is Centre Avenue, thus "Eastside" is in Shadyside, just like the Shakespeare Giant Eagle.

I agree its worth mentioning but, due to the busway, Eastside is more physically attached to East Liberty than Shadyside, so it is de facto if not de jure in EL. I doubt even the most stuck-up Shadysiders who are aware of that would refrain from crossing Centre/Penn Circle S out of fear or disgust of the enormous hordes of hooligans that roam East Liberty at all times of the day just waiting for some effete egghead to stroll by so they can beat them up and steal their wallets.

I live in Shadyside and stroll through East Liberty frequently. Even during my short time in Pittsburgh I've seen the trend there as being steadily upward. It's not exactly an urban paradise now, but it is moving closer toward lively neighborhood by the month.

[CFP]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

but it is moving closer toward lively neighborhood by the month.

and that's a good thing, unless of course lively means loud, as in loud music aka the Shadow Lounge and AVA and 6119

wouldn't want the new "gentry" to be disturbed

[I_Like_Spam]

East Lib just has a new paradigm nowadays, its just like how I imagine Portland to be- especially around the Bakery Square sector (which is technically Larimer).

Special parking spaces for hybrid vehicles, a massive bicycle rack, all kinds of snooty folks going to the gym to work out or buy fancy new duds.

A far cry from the East Lib of old.

[groar]

cfp's trick of complaining about gentrification while simultaneously denying it's happening is quite impressive!

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Special parking spaces for hybrid vehicles....

Love it, these are always primo spaces that are left open which I may or may not be an a$$hole for always using