Post Gazette Essay on a Transplant's Frustrating Home Search (Pittsburgh: for sale, buy)

[Katarina Witt]

Is it really unreasonable to expect a fairly level yard? All the homes I remember from my childhood, mine and friends', had fairly level yards, at least in back. Maybe Beaver County is different. BTW, we lived on "the hill" (Patterson Hts) when I was a child. But this hill was a plateau. Beaver Falls is built on the flood plain of the Beaver River. It gradually goes uphill from east to west, but slowly enough that most people have a fairly level yard. Then it rises abruptly uphill, where there is very little development, and again at the top, it is reasonably level again.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Is it really unreasonable to expect a fairly level yard? All the homes I remember from my childhood, mine and friends', had fairly level yards, at least in back. Maybe Beaver County is different. BTW, we lived on "the hill" (Patterson Hts) when I was a child. But this hill was a plateau. Beaver Falls is built on the flood plain of the Beaver River. It gradually goes uphill from east to west, but slowly enough that most people have a fairly level yard. Then it rises abruptly uphill, where there is very little development, and again at the top, it is reasonably level again.

It's unreasonable to expect it in an area where it's not typical. It sounds like the writer is only focusing on the city neighborhoods. The city is exceptionally hilly due to the rivers and streams. There are some flat yards in the city neighborhoods, but they are usually postage size yards or homes that are super expensive. If the OP expanded her search to the suburbs, she'd easily find a large flat yard.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Hopes

It's unreasonable to expect it in an area where it's not typical. It sounds like the writer is only focusing on the city neighborhoods. The city is exceptionally hilly due to the rivers and streams. There are some flat yards in the city neighborhoods, but they are usually postage size yards or homes that are super expensive. If the OP expanded her search to the suburbs, she'd easily find a large flat yard.

This is very true, but I ultimately don't think Pittsburgh is the problem. The author doesn't sound like she'd be fully satisfied anywhere. No matter what region you choose or what home you ultimately purchase, you're never going to get absolutely everything you desire (as we say over in Philly, she could use an addy-tude adjustment).

[goodgirl49]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Is it really unreasonable to expect a fairly level yard? All the homes I remember from my childhood, mine and friends', had fairly level yards, at least in back. Maybe Beaver County is different. BTW, we lived on "the hill" (Patterson Hts) when I was a child. But this hill was a plateau. Beaver Falls is built on the flood plain of the Beaver River. It gradually goes uphill from east to west, but slowly enough that most people have a fairly level yard. Then it rises abruptly uphill, where there is very little development, and again at the top, it is reasonably level again.

Aliquippa, where I grew up has a lot of flat areas. Where my house was located was flat as a pancake, but of course, the town, especially now, would have no amenities that the writer is looking for. I agree that there are lots of flat areas in Beaver County.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Hopes

It's unreasonable to expect it in an area where it's not typical. It sounds like the writer is only focusing on the city neighborhoods. The city is exceptionally hilly due to the rivers and streams. There are some flat yards in the city neighborhoods, but they are usually postage size yards or homes that are super expensive. If the OP expanded her search to the suburbs, she'd easily find a large flat yard.

I disagree that the city is exceptionally hilly for the region. In the North Side the northern parts are, but the southern parts are not. In the East End just about everything north of Squirrel Hill (minus Stanton Heights) is either flat, or on a shallow slope so that the the backyard itself is pretty level. The southern portion of the city is the only one with really crazy topography (outside of Southside Flats, of course).

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I disagree that the city is exceptionally hilly for the region. In the North Side the northern parts are, but the southern parts are not. In the East End just about everything north of Squirrel Hill (minus Stanton Heights) is either flat, or on a shallow slope so that the the backyard itself is pretty level. The southern portion of the city is the only one with really crazy topography (outside of Southside Flats, of course).

The writer didn't say she wanted a flat backyard. She said she wanted a flat yard and didn't like steps. In most neighborhoods, there are steps or a significant slope in part of the yards. North of Squirrel Hill? Heck, drive down Beachwood Blvd towards 5th. Those yards aren't flat. I have friends who own there. They have slopes to the street and big gigantic hills in the back. Yeah, they're flat compared to other areas but they are not flat. Although houses with flat yards exist, they are not the majority. Remember, I said compared to the region. Our in the suburbs and other counties, topography is very flat compared to Pittsburgh.

[Tallysmom]

Meh -- people want what they want. I don't want stairs because of my knees and husband's back -- stairs are NOT practical. Frankly -- I'd love to find a place with no basement. And at this point in my life, the place has to be able to become ADA outfitted because this will be our forever home, and at some point we will need to use walkers or wheelchairs..

But the problem is no house is PERFECT, unless you build it, and even then, you'll figure out that shouldn't have gone there, this is too far away from that and why did we think that was a perfect solution?

My own foray into buying real estate was more finding out what I DIDN'T want, to find a place that didn't have that stuff and was someplace I could deal with.

Which led me to looking at condos and who the hell builds condos out of cement block? Californians.... and then they charge out the whazoo for them. And tell everyone how nice they are. We were in countless unpainted cement block monstrosities I almost gave up looking. And then they were telling us we'd have to get rid of a cat.

So finally I put my foot down and said NO HOAs. No condos. Firm. No compromise. 6 houses later we found our little slice of heaven. Trust me -- we're the only ones that think of that way. And we don't care.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Hopes

The writer didn't say she wanted a flat backyard. She said she wanted a flat yard and didn't like steps. In most neighborhoods, there are steps or a significant slope in part of the yards. North of Squirrel Hill? Heck, drive down Beechwood Blvd towards 5th. Those yards aren't flat. I have friends who own there. They have slopes to the street and big gigantic hills in the back. Yeah, they're flat compared to other areas but they are not flat. Although houses with flat yards exist, they are not the majority.

Huh? I said everything north of Squirrel Hill, and you mentioned an intersection in Squirrel Hill. Let me make it simpler.

The following East End neighborhoods are close to flat in virtually all of the inhabited portions

Bloomfield
Shadyside
East Liberty
Highland Park
Morningside
Larimer
Homewood
Point Breeze North
Regent Square
Swisshelm Park

In addition, most of Oakland and portions of Garfield and Point Breeze are also on the East End Plateau. Downtown, the Strip District, the Bluff, and the river-facing portions of Hazelwood and Lawrenceville are all set on lower plateaus - not to mention microneighborhoods like Four Mile Run and Duck Hollow.

Even the sloped parts of the East End often don't have steps, along with not having a backyard. I've lived in Lawrenceville five years now, and besides some mid-century infill, every house has a flat front entry even if it's built on a street either running parallel to (as in upper Lawrenceville), or directly up (as Main/Fisk) a slope. I haven't spent that much time in the Hill District, but driving around my experience there is pretty similar - on a micro level it's been flattened pretty well.

The only inhabited portions of the East End which aren't really flat are Stanton Heights, Squirrel Hill, Greenfield, and portions of Hazelwood, plus some of the outer portions of East Hills and Lincoln-Lemington Belmar. Schenley and Frick park sort of absorbed a large portion of the craziest topography out here, for better or worse.

Originally Posted by Hopes

Remember, I said compared to the region. Our in the suburbs and other counties, topography is very flat compared to Pittsburgh.

I don't think this is right. The hills are gentler going northward into Butler County, but they aren't much different going towards Murraysville or Peters Township. And sububs like Mount Lebanon, Dormont, Whitehall, or even parts of Monroeville are plenty hilly - the yards look far hillier than the places I frequent in the city.

Admittedly, some suburbs can look flatter because development avoided steep slopes. Look at O'Hara Township, for example - the road patterns follow the crest of the hills only, and if you just go by those roads, you might think you're living in a flat area.

[Katarina Witt]

Great post, Tallysmom, as usual. And this ladyin the article is retiring, she's probably bought a house or two, and has some general idea of what she wants. Maybe when she said flat yard she meant a flat BACK yard, who knows. She didn't say "no stairs", she said she didn't want "millions of stairs". There are a few things I wouldn't compromise on either if I were buying a retirement home.

My parents were among those who thought wanting a house all on one level was "lazy" until my father broke his hip. They had to get a potty-chair for him; he slept on the pull out couch, and I don't think he went upstairs again for months.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Huh? I said everything north of Squirrel Hill, and you mentioned an intersection in Squirrel Hill.

The intersection I mentioned is in Point Breeze.