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Pittsburgh has a ridiculous amount of neighborhoods given it's size. We have 89 neighborhoods with just over 300,000 people. In contrast, Boston has only 21 despite being over twice our size. New York City has a few neighborhoods (such as Long Island City) as large as all of Pittsburgh.
I know the topography of Pittsburgh means that many small neighborhoods make logical sense. Thus places like Allegheny West, East Carnegie, or Bon Air, despite being very small, have distinct characters and I think are justified (and there are others, like Four Mile Run, which should be recognized but are not). But the following still seem odd to me, after living here for nine years. Maybe someone can give me some historical background.
Chateau: A neighborhood with nearly no residents, and only one house! Yes, 65 cut off the section of Manchester along the Ohio River, but I don't see what necessitated spinning off a whole new neighborhood. Admittedly, the Carnegie Science Center and the Casino are also technically in Chateau, when most people would say that area is the North Shore. The North Shore doesn't have many residents (right now), but it at least has a definable character.
South Shore: Consists of Station Square, some industrial buildings, and a few random houses which ended up in the census block. It seems logical to just call this area part of South Side. I don't think people ever lived here within recent memory.
Duquense Heights: Yes, it's inhabited, but there doesn't seem to be any real distinction (and certainly no sharp boundary) between it and Mount Washington. In my experience, people saying they live in Duquense Heights has more to do with class than what block they live on.
Windgap: The northern half is part of the same grid as Chartiers City. the southern half is part of Sheraden for all intents. I don't see how the two are related, except they are in the same census tract.
"Project Neighborhoods": Pittsburgh likes to take out census groups with large blocks of public housing, and term them standalone neighborhoods. In some cases this made sense, as some (Northview Heights, Terrace Village, Glen Hazel) were built on essentially virgin land with nothing nearby. On the other hand, Bedford Dwellings is essentially integrated into the Middle Hill. Worse are the closed/semi-closed projects in the South. Why is Arlington Heights still its own neighborhood despite being down to 250 people and a handful of buildings? I don't know what else you could call Saint Clair (part of Mount Oliver?), but it's pretty much gone now.
Overbrook: Overbrook came into the city as an independent borough, so the boundaries make sense in one manner. However, looking at it on a map, it's split into three chunks by 88 and 51, with the residential segments better linked with Brookline, Carrick, and Castle Shannon respectively. While the other South Pittsburgh neighborhoods have distinct identities, it just doesn't.
Random subdivisions of neighborhoods: Okay, I can understand the division of the Hill District, although I'd argue that its often diminished due to being defined as five neighborhoods. Squirrel Hill is often divided into North/South, although I'd argue that besides talking about real estate prices, Forbes isn't the best dividing line, as it unites rather than divides Squirrel Hill. But why are there three Homewoods? Why are there three Lawrencevilles? Why are their four different Oakland neighborhoods, with one (West Oakland) being half in the Hill District. It seems like needless subdivision to me. It seems this only happens in the East End (the Slopes/Flats division in the South Side makes sense), which makes me wonder if it was done to make the demographic prominence of the East End seem less dramatic.
Subdivisions of neighborhoods make sense when describing where things are located. Long Island has towns inside it. People who live there tell each other which town they live near. I'm sure there are similar subdivisions in Queens, etc. When I meet someone in my township for the first time, we tell each other what subdivision/neighborhood we live in. It makes perfect sense to me that there are three Lawrenceville's because it has three separate business districts.
[quote=Hopes;28578643]Subdivisions of neighborhoods make sense when describing where things are located. /QUOTE]
I don't see why they need official recognition by the city though. Hell, I think it's a disservice in cases where fragmenting a neighborhood which has no natural cultural or topographic divisions makes it look smaller/less important in neighborhood rankings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes
When I meet someone in my township for the first time, we tell each other what subdivision/neighborhood we live in.
I ask people in Lawrenceville what block they live on. That doesn't mean I think each block should be a different neighborhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes
It makes perfect sense to me that there are three Lawrenceville's because it has three separate business districts.
I live in Lawrenceville, and it doesn't make sense to me. Demographically and structurally, there is no difference between Central and Lower Lawrenceville at all (excepting the portion on the opposite side of Penn Avenue, which is more like Bloomfield). There's just a long block with Arsenal and a big warehouse separating the two. It's no big deal.
Upper Lawrenceville is a bit different, although the business district is continuous on the north side of the road the whole way up. The housing is different (mostly frame, not brick), and the area isn't as gentrified as the rest of Lawrenceville. That said, I'm not sure this alone should make it a separate neighborhood. Should Stanton Heights south of Stanton Avenue be its own neighborhood because it's a black area?
Pittsburgh has a ridiculous amount of neighborhoods given it's size. We have 89 neighborhoods with just over 300,000 people. In contrast, Boston has only 21 despite being over twice our size. New York City has a few neighborhoods (such as Long Island City) as large as all of Pittsburgh.
I know the topography of Pittsburgh means that many small neighborhoods make logical sense. Thus places like Allegheny West, East Carnegie, or Bon Air, despite being very small, have distinct characters and I think are justified (and there are others, like Four Mile Run, which should be recognized but are not). But the following still seem odd to me, after living here for nine years. Maybe someone can give me some historical background.
Chateau: A neighborhood with nearly no residents, and only one house! Yes, 65 cut off the section of Manchester along the Ohio River, but I don't see what necessitated spinning off a whole new neighborhood. Admittedly, the Carnegie Science Center and the Casino are also technically in Chateau, when most people would say that area is the North Shore. The North Shore doesn't have many residents (right now), but it at least has a definable character.
South Shore: Consists of Station Square, some industrial buildings, and a few random houses which ended up in the census block. It seems logical to just call this area part of South Side. I don't think people ever lived here within recent memory.
Duquense Heights: Yes, it's inhabited, but there doesn't seem to be any real distinction (and certainly no sharp boundary) between it and Mount Washington. In my experience, people saying they live in Duquense Heights has more to do with class than what block they live on.
Windgap: The northern half is part of the same grid as Chartiers City. the southern half is part of Sheraden for all intents. I don't see how the two are related, except they are in the same census tract.
"Project Neighborhoods": Pittsburgh likes to take out census groups with large blocks of public housing, and term them standalone neighborhoods. In some cases this made sense, as some (Northview Heights, Terrace Village, Glen Hazel) were built on essentially virgin land with nothing nearby. On the other hand, Bedford Dwellings is essentially integrated into the Middle Hill. Worse are the closed/semi-closed projects in the South. Why is Arlington Heights still its own neighborhood despite being down to 250 people and a handful of buildings? I don't know what else you could call Saint Clair (part of Mount Oliver?), but it's pretty much gone now.
Overbrook: Overbrook came into the city as an independent borough, so the boundaries make sense in one manner. However, looking at it on a map, it's split into three chunks by 88 and 51, with the residential segments better linked with Brookline, Carrick, and Castle Shannon respectively. While the other South Pittsburgh neighborhoods have distinct identities, it just doesn't.
Random subdivisions of neighborhoods: Okay, I can understand the division of the Hill District, although I'd argue that its often diminished due to being defined as five neighborhoods. Squirrel Hill is often divided into North/South, although I'd argue that besides talking about real estate prices, Forbes isn't the best dividing line, as it unites rather than divides Squirrel Hill. But why are there three Homewoods? Why are there three Lawrencevilles? Why are their four different Oakland neighborhoods, with one (West Oakland) being half in the Hill District. It seems like needless subdivision to me. It seems this only happens in the East End (the Slopes/Flats division in the South Side makes sense), which makes me wonder if it was done to make the demographic prominence of the East End seem less dramatic.
I wonder the same things sometimes. But then again Pennsylvania as a whole is divided up ridiculously as well. I know at one time a lot of those smaller neighborhoods once supported a much larger population, but still doesn't make sense. I mean some of the really small neighborhoods (St. Clair, Arlington heights, etc) are in the same census block tract as the surrounding areas!
I live in Lawrenceville, and it doesn't make sense to me. Demographically and structurally, there is no difference between Central and Lower Lawrenceville at all (excepting the portion on the opposite side of Penn Avenue, which is more like Bloomfield). There's just a long block with Arsenal and a big warehouse separating the two. It's no big deal.
The terms are rooted in history. There was a time when the distinction indicated varying degrees of safety in Lawrenceville.
Consider Etna. There's east Etna and west Etna. Among Etna residents, west Etna is considered lower class. To outsiders, all of Etna looks the same.
The terms are rooted in history. There was a time when the distinction indicated varying degrees of safety in Lawrenceville.
Consider Etna. There's east Etna and west Etna. Among Etna residents, west Etna is considered lower class. To outsiders, all of Etna looks the same.
I can understand making distinctions. I live in "the Flats" part of Central Lawrenceville, and I often distinguish it from "the Slopes." On one hand, we lack any streets with fine houses like Main or Fisk. On the other hand, the slope got a lot of not particularly nice 1920s infill which sort of broke up its character, while the flats remains (minus a few really recent infill projects) almost 100% intact Victorian architecture.
That said, I would never call on the city to recognize my own little bit of Lawrenceville as its own neighborhood. The city cutting Lawrenceville into three chunks as it is diminishes our ranking in terms of population, jobs, and many other statistics. I'd hate to see it diminished even further.
IMHO the only neighborhood which should be divided which isn't is East Allegheny. Due to the effects of gentrification west of 279, and the continued blight east of it, the two parts feel like totally different neighborhoods now. I'd probably lump East Deutschtown in with Spring Garden however in that case, as the architecture is similar, and they are fairly contiguous neighborhoods.
why is it perry north on maps, but observatory hill everywhere else (including street signs)?
Because residents think the Perry name has a stigma due to Perry South/Perry Hilltop, hence they prefer the alternate name for the neighborhood.
At one point, most of Point Breeze was considered Homewood from what I've read (hence Homewood cemetery), so rebranding has a long and storied history.
Because residents think the Perry name has a stigma due to Perry South/Perry Hilltop, hence they prefer the alternate name for the neighborhood.
I don't really think that's the reason. I'm almost certain that people have been calling it "Observatory Hill" for far longer than the city started calling them "Perry North / South." I think it's because there is an observatory there, and it is on a hill.
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