Central Bus. District #4 (Central North Side)? (Pittsburgh, Liberty: appointed, to rent, to buy)

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I'm not encouraged that a nonprofit bookstore is going to the "anchor" of the Garden Theatre development... also discouraged by Nakama pulling out of the project.

I'm not really surprised by Nakama pull out. To be honest I saw them as the Odd Man out in this project..

I just don't get Nakama fitting in to theme of the Mex War Streets area, what they have on The South Side works fits right into the Carson Street theme. Mex War Streets I see more like a Highland Park type setting, quaint little business (Bookstore, Coffeehouses, some BYOB type restaurants). sort of the neighborhood of the Intellect Scene.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Lobick

^ This.

I do think you will continue to see the development of the North Shore with increased commercial and residential components. To the degree that the greater downtown area grows to the North Shore, and density of development increases, some of the barriers between the shore and North Side proper, especially the mental ones of perception may erode somewhat.

The physical barriers will remain, of course, although perhaps access will be improved somewhat.

Having a mini-Carson street like thoroughfare in close proximity to an expanded downtown would be a wonderful outcome.

It would help if Crazy Mocha and El Burro would stay open later than 7PM. That only reinforces negative perceptions of the area... plus it's really annoying as I have to race over to El Burro immediately after work if I want a burrito.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

I'm not really surprised by Nakama pull out. To be honest I saw them as the Odd Man out in this project..

I just don't get Nakama fitting in to theme of the Mex War Streets area, what they have on The South Side works fits right into the Carson Street theme. Mex War Streets I see more like a Highland Park type setting, quaint little business (Bookstore, Coffeehouses, some BYOB type restaurants). sort of the neighborhood of the Intellect Scene.

Cool... well we don't have anything over on the North Side. I don't care about Nakama not fitting some stereotypical theme... it would've just been nice to have a place to go out for dinner once in awhile without having to drive over to the East End.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Cool... well we don't have anything over on the North Side. I don't care about Nakama not fitting some stereotypical theme... it would've just been nice to have a place to go out for dinner once in awhile without having to drive over to the East End.

You may have not, but Nakama would care when they saw they couldn't get the same time of Patron base in the Mex War Streets that you get on the South Side. Its not about stereotyping as much as its about what works in what neighborhood, if were of the "Anything Goes" mindset then I guess we should consider plopping Red Lobster, Cheesecake Factory and a McCormick and Schmicks down in the Garden Theater Project as well.

Again Nakama probably figured out what works on the South Side won't work in Mex War Streets, 2 different demographics.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I know these numbers are from Census 2000 (document produced by Chris Briem in 2006)... and some neighborhoods like East Liberty have changed dramatically since then... but I think people who are saying the North Side is not a major center of employment are forgetting a few things. As much as we all hate Allegheny Center... that monstrosity is home to thousands of employees. There was an article a couple years ago about how successful it is as an office complex. PNC Mortgage and Bank of America Mortgage are two major tenants there. Allegheny Center had 5,405 employees in 2000. .....
Not being an "employment center" is certainly not one of the North Side's problems when it comes to commercial development. The problem is residential demographics, lingering negative perceptions, and the disjointed road network due to Allegheny Center. It's such a hassle getting from East Ohio to Western Ave.

while allegheny center does have employees it could have more. still, a bigger problem than lack of employees or even the road network is that it just does a poor job of capitalizing on what it does have, likely owing to the anti-pedetrian nature of the urban renewal era. where are the ground floor spaces for retail that could house restaurants for workers or museum/aviary visitors? why should allegheny center just be a connection between east and west rather than a destination of itelf? I also think the highway to the south chopping off the "north shore" is a big obstacle. if it's possible for something to be more than the sum of its parts then it should also be possible for something to be less than the sum of its parts and that's allegheny center.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

....

That's 13,000 employees within those 4 small North Side neighborhoods. The adjacent North Shore... which is divided more psychologically then spatially... added another 3500 employees in 2000.

Also worth considering is California-Kirkbride (postal facility, not much else), Chateau (has a huge number of jobs, even if no residents) and Manchester.

Honestly, if there's anywhere I'd pick as the next big area for dense mixed use development, it would be the area of Manchester on same side of 65 as the rest of the Northside (north of 65, but below Western Avenue. The area has a ton of low-use industrial and fast-food joints now, and no residents. However, it's a very short walk from the new Allegheny Station, which means anyone who can catch a bus downtown can get there with ease. I expect that CCAC will shrink over time (there isn't much need for community colleges to have physical locations anymore), which will free up some property on the other side of Allegheny Avenue eventually as well, and Lower Manchester has plenty of semi-blighted industrial buildings 1-2 blocks north of Western Avenue as well.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Also worth considering is California-Kirkbride (postal facility, not much else), Chateau (has a huge number of jobs, even if no residents) and Manchester.

Honestly, if there's anywhere I'd pick as the next big area for dense mixed use development, it would be the area of Manchester on same side of 65 as the rest of the Northside (north of 65, but below Western Avenue. The area has a ton of low-use industrial and fast-food joints now, and no residents. However, it's a very short walk from the new Allegheny Station, which means anyone who can catch a bus downtown can get there with ease. I expect that CCAC will shrink over time (there isn't much need for community colleges to have physical locations anymore), which will free up some property on the other side of Allegheny Avenue eventually as well, and Lower Manchester has plenty of semi-blighted industrial buildings 1-2 blocks north of Western Avenue as well.

Giant Eagle wanted to put one of its new "Express" stores (like the one in Harmar) on a desolate triangle of land in that area tucked between West End Bridge, Western and the the overbuilt 3-lanes one-way Fulton back in 2007... but the city wouldn't allow one of the three lanes to be reversed.

[ferraris]

The lower northside does have a lot of jobs, but I don't see it as bieng much different than places like the South Side, Lawrenceville, Bloomfield, Shadyside, and Squirrel HIll. Nobody seems to consider those areas central business districts.

One thing that East Liberty, Downtown, and Oakland all have that these other neighborhoods do not is a a transit hub. The northside is a prime location for a transit hub, but that still isn't the case at present.

[Evergrey]

btw, here's the "Employment by Neighborhood" document I was referencing:

http://www.ucsur.pitt.edu/files/nrep...ntProfiles.pdf

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

The lower northside does have a lot of jobs, but I don't see it as bieng much different than places like the South Side, Lawrenceville, Bloomfield, Shadyside, and Squirrel HIll. Nobody seems to consider those areas central business districts.

One thing that East Liberty, Downtown, and Oakland all have that these other neighborhoods do not is a a transit hub. The northside is a prime location for a transit hub, but that still isn't the case at present.

Agreed on both points. There is the light rail connector near Heinz Field, but it isn't central and is not easily accessed by foot. Watch the route that peds use to get to CCAC from there and how they risk their lives.

The lower northside is very broken up with parks, parking lots, stadiums, highways, railroad tracks and horrible road patterns.

I sort of see the North shore buildings, as far North as 279, as an extension of downtown. Then the north side starts over again with Allegheny Center. They did make it a more pleasant walk from PNC park to AGC with better lighting under the railroad tracks and 279.

There are lots of business districts on the lower Northside but none of them have come close to reaching their full potential.