Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Pittsburgh
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-31-2013, 12:27 AM
 
1,901 posts, read 4,351,730 times
Reputation: 1018

Advertisements

Quote:
Not trying to be a smartass, but asking because I'm genuinely curious--Is that more a result of the process of maturation, or the process of attrition?
Also check you this video, you can see some of the dynamics of loose hierarchy/roles in Pittsburgh gangs. As some of the members of the: 581 HillTop Crips of the Brushton-Hilltop (Homewood North) section of Homewood; Dallas-Inwood Boyz (Crips) of the Homewood West section of Homewood; and Wilner Drive Bloods set of the East Hills Bloods of the Phase II East Hills Apts, East Hills got on camera for a "blockumentary". Note most members are 15-25 years old.
Video: Tour Inside Gang Neighborhoods Of Pittsburgh, PA (Including East Hill Bloods, Hilltop 581 Crips & Dallas Ave Crips With Even 11-Year-Olds Joining In) [31 Min Documentary]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-31-2013, 12:46 AM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,590,543 times
Reputation: 30709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uptown kid View Post
Actually the Hill leads all neighborhoods in recent homicides as it has well over 31 which Homewood's number. I'm guessing 35, but I'll have to count. It's not in the body bag because its not adjacent to those neighborhoods.

Unlike Garfield, Larimer/bordering East Liberty, Lincoln, Homewood, Centeal Wilkinsburg, in the Hill you can be a drug dealer and not be a gang member. In fact for years the heirarcy of the drug trade in the Hill was:
1) non-affiliated mini-kingpins & their crews
2) lossely organized gangs/sets of the Hill Districk Bloods: Bedford Avenue Bloods, Bentley Drive Gang, Chauncey Drive Bloods, Down Low Blood Gang, Flackside Blood Gang (500 Burrows Street Bloods, 2400 Mad Circle Gang, 300 Rob'it'son Court Gang originally, but then mixed with other groups like Weedside Blood Gang, Whylie Avenue Bloods & 135 Bloods in Middle Hill), Gute Block Gang, Reed Rude Boyz, Webster Avenue Bloods
3) non-affiliated low level drug dealers, who more often than often are not from the Hill
And all coexisted in the Hill excluding groups in the housing projects as they claimed turf. Problems only came up when people found out that they were: shorted in a drug deal, robbed or snitched on. And that's how it pretty much is today, but its more off an "anything goes" environment. Probably due to the long time, the top level, mini-kingpins got indicted in 2012 and because as you stated most of the original projects (where most of the Hill's gangs formed in) are now dust.
The Body Bagg is a totally different dynamic in exclusion of Northern East Liberty/SW Penn Hills (but even hybrid gangs have their boundaries/designated corners).
I'm trying to wrap my head around the difference. It seems backwards, you'd think the murders would be lower if they only happen for those reasons. It sounds like you're describing something where innocent bystanders aren't often shot in cross fire. The other neighborhoods have more wide spread gun fire that hurts innocent people sometimes. You'd think the Hill would have lower murders. Can you explain why theirs are higher? Is that because people who are cheated don't dare retaliate against a gang member in the other neighborhoods? Nobody dares snitch in the other neighborhoods but will in the Hill? Help me connect the dots. Don't tell me gangs keep murder down. Is it just that there's a larger population on the Hill than the other neighborhoods?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2013, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,360 posts, read 16,855,527 times
Reputation: 12390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I'm trying to wrap my head around the difference. It seems backwards, you'd think the murders would be lower if they only happen for those reasons. It sounds like you're describing something where innocent bystanders aren't often shot in cross fire. The other neighborhoods have more wide spread gun fire that hurts innocent people sometimes. You'd think the Hill would have lower murders. Can you explain why theirs are higher? Is that because people who are cheated don't dare retaliate against a gang member in the other neighborhoods? Nobody dares snitch in the other neighborhoods but will in the Hill? Help me connect the dots. Don't tell me gangs keep murder down. Is it just that there's a larger population on the Hill than the other neighborhoods?
I don't know if it happens in Pittsburgh, but well established, professional gangs which aren't in fights with other gangs can depress the local crime rate considerably, as no drug dealing or killing happens without their OK. I knew a guy who lived in Alphabet City in NYC back when it was still really rough, and by befriending the local dealer (who he didn't buy from) he managed to ensure that nothing bad ever happened to him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2013, 08:18 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,259,850 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uptown kid View Post
Actually the Hill leads all neighborhoods in recent homicides as it has well over 31 which Homewood's number. I'm guessing 35, but I'll have to count. It's not in the body bag because its not adjacent to those neighborhoods.

Unlike Garfield, Larimer/bordering East Liberty, Lincoln, Homewood, Centeal Wilkinsburg, in the Hill you can be a drug dealer and not be a gang member. In fact for years the heirarcy of the drug trade in the Hill was:
1) non-affiliated mini-kingpins & their crews
2) lossely organized gangs/sets of the Hill Districk Bloods: Bedford Avenue Bloods, Bentley Drive Gang, Chauncey Drive Bloods, Down Low Blood Gang, Flackside Blood Gang (500 Burrows Street Bloods, 2400 Mad Circle Gang, 300 Rob'it'son Court Gang originally, but then mixed with other groups like Weedside Blood Gang, Whylie Avenue Bloods & 135 Bloods in Middle Hill), Gute Block Gang, Reed Rude Boyz, Webster Avenue Bloods
3) non-affiliated low level drug dealers, who more often than often are not from the Hill
And all coexisted in the Hill excluding groups in the housing projects as they claimed turf. Problems only came up when people found out that they were: shorted in a drug deal, robbed or snitched on. And that's how it pretty much is today, but its more off an "anything goes" environment. Probably due to the long time, the top level, mini-kingpins got indicted in 2012 and because as you stated most of the original projects (where most of the Hill's gangs formed in) are now dust.
The Body Bagg is a totally different dynamic in exclusion of Northern East Liberty/SW Penn Hills (but even hybrid gangs have their boundaries/designated corners).
I think that after living on the Hill (middle) for well over 20 years and hanging in most of the places that you mentioned have never heard some of those "gangs". For instance, "Weedside Road" (Whiteside Rd) I can attest never had a "gang" but a loose family of Hustlers who happened to live there. The violence that was there was always personal and rarely against innocent people. I was living on the Hill up until the month that people started to move out, they still have Whiteside Road reunions. The "Mad Circle" which was a project half circle (that I can never remember the name of) along with Robinson Court (Pitt soccer Field now) which has been torn down well over ten years ago were notorious for people getting robbed (even those who were not connected enough and lived there) unfortunately a childhood friend of mine terrorized the drug dealers there.

I doubt very seriously that any gang activity is happening on Burrows now because of beefed up security in the area. Now Bentley Drive/Reed and Roberts might have something going on around there since this one of the few areas that I never had a reason to go and it's accessilbilty to the "big boys spots" on 5th Ave. Chauncey Drive, which since the tearing down of it's sister projects Francis Dr, has had a bunch of young boys running around sticking up one another. It is possible that there may be one Old head that is pushing them but they are not a real gang with any identity or reputation worth mentioning.
Wylie Ave did have a so-called gang, but they were some really young punks that did not have any money, guns or pull to the point that about 12 of them were giving a beat down by 4 older guys, one who just happened to have been wearing a blue t-shirt. Webster Ave (from Kirkpatrick St to Sugartop) never had a named gang. As far as the 135 and the Glute gangs, truthfully I have never heard of them.
Sugartop is another area that has a loose group of thugs but nothing like the Crips in Homewood, the (defuncted?) LAW in Lincoln Larimer, or the assorted number of gangs on the Northside. They pretty much a group that hustle and get high together. Most of them were transplanted from other parts of the Hill or from other places.

Since I lived in the mist of many of the places that you mentioned and had some dealings with many of the people that many want to consider as being "gangbangers" I can tell you first hand that majority of the Hill does not have any real red bandanna gang bangers. I'm going back next month, so if I'm wrong I will let you know
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2013, 08:28 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,259,850 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I don't know if it happens in Pittsburgh, but well established, professional gangs which aren't in fights with other gangs can depress the local crime rate considerably, as no drug dealing or killing happens without their OK. I knew a guy who lived in Alphabet City in NYC back when it was still really rough, and by befriending the local dealer (who he didn't buy from) he managed to ensure that nothing bad ever happened to him.
I don't know about other parts of Pittsburgh, but I can't see anyone on the Hill with that type of power. It has always been a "free enterprise drug section" unless you had a beef with someone and don't stick out. I have seen a kid from the West End set up shop because he had a girlfriend who had a big family.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2013, 08:35 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,259,850 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I'm trying to wrap my head around the difference. It seems backwards, you'd think the murders would be lower if they only happen for those reasons. It sounds like you're describing something where innocent bystanders aren't often shot in cross fire. The other neighborhoods have more wide spread gun fire that hurts innocent people sometimes. You'd think the Hill would have lower murders. Can you explain why theirs are higher? Is that because people who are cheated don't dare retaliate against a gang member in the other neighborhoods? Nobody dares snitch in the other neighborhoods but will in the Hill? Help me connect the dots. Don't tell me gangs keep murder down. Is it just that there's a larger population on the Hill than the other neighborhoods?

Actually, Hopes it isn't since the majority of the projects are torn down. The murders on the Hill as I stated before are deliberate and are personal. In my years there I can recall maybe three murders that were accidental (one was a childhood friend, mistaken identity) and those mainly come from people who do not live on the Hill. Since the Hill does not have really have organized gangs thats why the numbers do not seem right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2013, 09:08 PM
 
1,901 posts, read 4,351,730 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I'm trying to wrap my head around the difference. It seems backwards, you'd think the murders would be lower if they only happen for those reasons. It sounds like you're describing something where innocent bystanders aren't often shot in cross fire. The other neighborhoods have more wide spread gun fire that hurts innocent people sometimes. You'd think the Hill would have lower murders. Can you explain why theirs are higher? Is that because people who are cheated don't dare retaliate against a gang member in the other neighborhoods? Nobody dares snitch in the other neighborhoods but will in the Hill? Help me connect the dots. Don't tell me gangs keep murder down. Is it just that there's a larger population on the Hill than the other neighborhoods?
Well I can't explain it, but the Hill District (rarely has gang related homicides) has had more homicides than Homewood/Central Wilkinsburg (where most homicides are gang related) since 2008. Though I can tell you for sure that those hypothetical situations don't exist... There are snitches cooperating with the police in every hood http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...police-498852/, drug deals go bad in every hood, and gangs don't keep the murder down in Pittsburgh. When gangs ceasefire there are far fewer shootings in gang neighborhoods.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2013, 09:35 PM
 
99 posts, read 146,303 times
Reputation: 49
Simetime dont go investigating bentley. I have no idea if what Goes on there qualifies as gang activity to you, but I would be concerned for your well being with so many fiends running around up there.

And you are not the first to say that gangs are dead, but what do you call it when a group of people collectively engage in crime and throw up their sets at anyone that aint familiar?

Is be interested in seeing a map of the whole city to see if my instincts are correct.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2013, 10:22 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,259,850 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neckbeard89 View Post
Simetime dont go investigating bentley. I have no idea if what Goes on there qualifies as gang activity to you, but I would be concerned for your well being with so many fiends running around up there.

And you are not the first to say that gangs are dead, but what do you call it when a group of people collectively engage in crime and throw up their sets at anyone that aint familiar?

Is be interested in seeing a map of the whole city to see if my instincts are correct.

Believe me finding out certain things like that is as simple as going to certain Barbershops to find out the scoop besides eventhough I really never hungout down there I still know people who live there. I can't say that I grew up as a sheep amongst the wolves but I'm known in some circles and I never made any enemies growing up. But thanks for your concern


Quick story. I had a girlfriend who lived in Uniontown and when I met her grandmother who treated me so nice with the upmost respect. When she asked her grandaughter wher I was from, her whole expression on her face changed and she told her later that she should be careful of me because of the reputation of the Hill.

The Hill has been the bane of many truths and myths since I moved there in 1974 and having two generations of family before me living there provides alot of insight on some of the things that goes on there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2013, 11:00 PM
 
1,901 posts, read 4,351,730 times
Reputation: 1018
Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
I think that after living on the Hill (middle) for well over 20 years and hanging in most of the places that you mentioned have never heard some of those "gangs". For instance, "Weedside Road" (Whiteside Rd) I can attest never had a "gang" but a loose family of Hustlers who happened to live there. The violence that was there was always personal and rarely against innocent people. I was living on the Hill up until the month that people started to move out, they still have Whiteside Road reunions. The "Mad Circle" which was a project half circle (that I can never remember the name of) along with Robinson Court (Pitt soccer Field now) which has been torn down well over ten years ago were notorious for people getting robbed (even those who were not connected enough and lived there) unfortunately a childhood friend of mine terrorized the drug dealers there.

I doubt very seriously that any gang activity is happening on Burrows now because of beefed up security in the area. Now Bentley Drive/Reed and Roberts might have something going on around there since this one of the few areas that I never had a reason to go and it's accessilbilty to the "big boys spots" on 5th Ave. Chauncey Drive, which since the tearing down of it's sister projects Francis Dr, has had a bunch of young boys running around sticking up one another. It is possible that there may be one Old head that is pushing them but they are not a real gang with any identity or reputation worth mentioning.
Wylie Ave did have a so-called gang, but they were some really young punks that did not have any money, guns or pull to the point that about 12 of them were giving a beat down by 4 older guys, one who just happened to have been wearing a blue t-shirt. Webster Ave (from Kirkpatrick St to Sugartop) never had a named gang. As far as the 135 and the Glute gangs, truthfully I have never heard of them.
Sugartop is another area that has a loose group of thugs but nothing like the Crips in Homewood, the (defuncted?) LAW in Lincoln Larimer, or the assorted number of gangs on the Northside. They pretty much a group that hustle and get high together. Most of them were transplanted from other parts of the Hill or from other places.

Since I lived in the mist of many of the places that you mentioned and had some dealings with many of the people that many want to consider as being "gangbangers" I can tell you first hand that majority of the Hill does not have any real red bandanna gang bangers. I'm going back next month, so if I'm wrong I will let you know
-Here's an article that shows how even the police are aware that Chauncey Drive affiliated itself as Bloods... http://triblive.com/mobile/1276025-9...district-drive
-The Elmore Square Projects were originally the home of the Gute Block Gang, but now they relocated to the Chauncey Drive Projects (like the Francis Street group did in the early 2000's). Youth from Elmore Sq always used the phrase "gute" similarly to how the youth from rest of the Hill use "ike" and/or "nephs"...
East Pittsburgh man killed in Munhall shooting identified - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
-I couldn't find any articles of the "Down Low", Bentley Drive, Webster, or Bedford Avenue groups getting publicity; however, there are probably videos out on YouTube as members of those groups claimed to be bloods
-Reed Rude Boyz aka Lost City Souljaz
Reed Rude Boys Hill District Pittsburgh PA - YouTube
-Flackside (before Oakhill became safer and during the mid 2000's when they relocated and united with other groups in Middle Hill)
I only found music promos, but the gang member-turned rappers identify themselves with the Bloods here
FLACKSIDE HILL DISTRICT PITTSBURGH PA - YouTube

I'm not questioning or doubting your knowledge here. I have strong roots to the Hill like most blacks in this city do I had several relatives scattered from Robinson Court to Cliff Street, and I know a few people involved (family) who also grew up in the Hill (Lower Hill)... Perhaps in the 90's it was different, but now these groups of thugs (whether legit or not) identify themselfs as the "Hill Districk Bloods", and rep the following groups: 1100 Bedford Avenue; Bentley Drive; Chauncey Drive; "Down Low"; "Flackside"; "Gute Block"; "Lost City" aka "Reed Rude"; & Webster Avenue (older individuals in the later). Most of those groups get along with each other, and members frequently hang out/deal drugs/do business with each other as (everybody's original homes have been razed so their forced to hang)
Now whether "gangs" in the Hill District are just simply hybrid gangs posing as Bloods when ever a camcorder comes around for a music video is a totalky different story. If that was the case it would make sense... and coincidentally from my experiences in the Hill, and from what you can on the internet I've noticed that throwing up B'z/CK, tagging red graffiti, and red bandana wearing isn't as rampant as it is in Garfield, the East Hills or even McKeesport. Plus when driving through there I noticed that red is only slightly more common than blue (even though Pittsburgh isn't about colors anymore until gang members put on bandanas for concealing their identities). Yet when ever Hill District gang members do put on bandanas they are red, black and camo patterns (signifying their allegiance to the Bloods by the red).

IMO the loosely organized "gangs" in the Hill District, West End, Clairton, and Duquesne seem in between loosely organized street gangs and neighborhood crews/hybrid gangs (for example there are hybrid gangs in current East Liberty, SW Penn Hills, McKees Rocks, SugarTop, Chartiers, South Oakland, Crestas Terrace, etc) like you though Weedside was. But in the 2000's they've always been out there. And I'm affirmative that you will see that when you come back.

Last edited by Uptown kid; 03-31-2013 at 11:10 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Pittsburgh

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top