Very interesting article in the post gazette on Sunday, regarding minorities getting left behind in Pittsburgh (Philadelphia: real estate, wages)
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I can't understand what you don't understand. You act as if it was simply a matter of choice???
Until the 1960s black people were prohibited from living in neighborhoods with good schools. Restricted from attending good colleges. Not allowed to join any union. Completely cut off from all office positions. Black success was basically illegal...
This was not a matter of people being unenlightened. It was purposeful subjugation enforced by law and corporate policy. Post civil rights, most cities across America rectified this wrong by providing access to their black citizens. The result being a strong black middle class in almost all of these cities.
So here is a question for you.
1.) In Pittsburgh, the statistics regarding black progress are abysmal, when compared to the rest of the country. The reasons for this are
(a) The remaining steel plants emit a some toxin that makes black people (and only black people) underachieve
(b) Pittsburgh was 30 years late in providing access
The 1960s was 50 years ago. That was before many of us (including myself) were even born. I agree with SCR; it's extremely unfair for the city to keep getting lambasted for things that occurred generations ago. If a person chooses not to pursue higher education, for example, in 2013 in order to acheive the American Dream, how on earth is that the fault of something the city did 50 or 60 years ago? If people in our day choose not to become professionals, they cannot blame the city for that. Pittsburgh is an awesome city (a very diverse, progressive city, I should add) filled with opportunity for all people, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or creed. The past is the past--now let's move forward.
My Lithuanian and Polish ancestors experienced much discrimination and oppression in the early 20th century, yet they prospered. They achieved. They moved forward.
I'm a gay male. You don't think I experienced my share of homophobia and heterosexiam (keep in mind I lived in the South for a decade)? Of course I have. But I've done well for myself. I have no debt and a house paid for in cash. I've achieved, I've prospered.
Last edited by The King of Um; 06-01-2013 at 11:44 AM..
I'm a gay male. You don't think I experienced my share of homophobia and heterosexiam (keep in mind I lived in the South for a decade)? Of course I have. But I've done well for myself. I have no debt and a house paid for in cash. I've achieved, I've prospered.
And you left the South because you didn't feel it was a place where you could thrive. From what I've heard many blacks feel there isn't really much of a middle class black community here and the middle class white community hasn't been that welcoming. Obviously, I'm a newcomer and I'm white so I'm basing this on things I've read, but if it is the case I can understand why Pittsburgh might not be the first choice for black professionals as a place to settle down. Pittsburgh isn't as diverse as other places I've lived and it does seem to self-segregate along racial lines which could be another strike against it in many people's minds.
1.) In Pittsburgh, the statistics regarding black progress are abysmal, when compared to the rest of the country. The reasons for this are
(a) The remaining steel plants emit a some toxin that makes black people (and only black people) underachieve
(b) Pittsburgh was 30 years late in providing access
Actually its neither of those.
Since the 1960's, Pittsburgh's economy was the pits and a falling tide sinks all boats. The economic prospects of most people suffered in this region.
Even though the total steel collapse didn't occur until the early 80's, it was already beginning to fall in the 1960's. If you look at the progress of white people in this area during the same period, you'd see similar crappy statistics. Many of my own contemporaries left town during this epoch, including a lot of relatives.
Unless you can cite specific policies that other cities took, that Pittsburgh didn't, the statistics aren't really that impressive as far as proving a thing. Comparing Pittsburgh with boomtowns like Atlanta, Vegas or Washington DC is comparing apples and oranges.
The thing most self proclaimed "highly-informed Pittsburghers," tend to miss is that: people rarely self segregate around the Ohio and Monogohela rivers... East Pittsburgh, Swissvale, Hazelwood, Glen Hazel, Knoxvile, Mt. Oliver PA, Allentown, Marshall-Shadeland, McKees Rocks, Sheraden, Elliot, West End, downtown Corapolis, Ambridge, Rochester, etc. Diversity/white & black race relations are seen at its best in the grittiest river towns such as Central McKeesport, Duquesne-south of the tracks, Aliquippa, Braddock, Rankin, North Braddock-south of the cemetery, Clairton-south of the tracks, downtown Beaver Falls, Homestead, etc have few racial dividing lines... And when there are diving lines that's just coincidental or due to economic differences. Only parts of Esplen, West Mifflin, Glassport/Dravsoburg, Renzie. Park McKeesport, the western-most end Aliquippa, Munhall, etc are unfriendly towards blacks & only a few housing projects are unfriendly towards whites... Shoot, even the youth gangs are racially mixed in some river towns and riverside city neighborhoods! Arlington, Carrick, Hays, the Southside, Bellvue, etc are becoming more diverse, while towns like/neighboring Sewickley have always been friendly towards poor blacks as they often took jobs as maids/maintenance workers/low-income service jobs...
Note- neighborhoods off the Allegheny River are way more self segregated with the exception of: East Deutschtown, Nadine in Penn Hills, & the neighborhoods of Kew Ken/Arnold near the downtown.
-The portions of Brighton Heights you highlighted are only 22% and 29% black. It is not at all a hostile area for black people, but I wouldn't call it a "hidden black middle class neighborhood."
-The New Homestead and West Homestead census tracts are only 9% and 13% black. Are you sure about the few streets you highlighted?
-The "Garden City" part of Monroeville's census tract is just 22%
-You could also include both census tracts of the Central Northside, which are 39% and 56% black.
The black middle class there has a notable presence as I thought they were larger than 22 & 29%. I'll keep referring it as a diverse neighborhood though yah it could be taken off the map...
Those streets in West Homestead are pretty racially and have plenty of lower middle class-working class black families as residents... W. Homestead's black population is there and in the mean streets practically apart of Homestead (ie Cherry Ave, Neel St, Sarah St, Walnut St, W Hazel Way W 9th Ave & W 10th Ave)...
Believable theory for Garden City... A fair percentage of Garden City's black residents must be scared of the Census because they're definitely there...
I'll add Central Northside minus the currently still not the best parts (ie. what's left of Hoodtown & area off Federal)
Last edited by Uptown kid; 06-01-2013 at 04:41 PM..
The 1960s was 50 years ago. That was before many of us (including myself) were even born. I agree with SCR; it's extremely unfair for the city to keep getting lambasted for things that occurred generations ago. If a person chooses not to pursue higher education, for example, in 2013 in order to acheive the American Dream, how on earth is that the fault of something the city did 50 or 60 years ago? If people in our day choose not to become professionals, they cannot blame the city for that. Pittsburgh is an awesome city (a very diverse, progressive city, I should add) filled with opportunity for all people, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or creed. The past is the past--now let's move forward.
So even when you have an education and you are still being treated like you do not belong there, what does that imply? When I worked at the VA in Pittsburgh I still remember patients and staff look at me like I was not suppose to be there even though I would have my badge stating that I do. The point is that Pittsburgh for years until recently has been segregated. There are still peopple who actually lived through it who are still alive. I also remember not being welcomed in the Morningside area as a kid. You are also looking at it froma different perspective, but here is one for you; the gay community in Pittsburgh is still segregated to some point. I was wondering how come that you did not notice that?
My Lithuanian and Polish ancestors experienced much discrimination and oppression in the early 20th century, yet they prospered. They achieved. They moved forward.
They do not have the same history as blacks in this country, who were here much longer against their will. You know that there is a difference beteewn VOLUNTARY immigration and FORCED slavery.
I'm a gay male. You don't think I experienced my share of homophobia and heterosexiam (keep in mind I lived in the South for a decade)? Of course I have. But I've done well for myself. I have no debt and a house paid for in cash. I've achieved, I've prospered.
Congrats to your success but unless you lived in a small town in Alabama and you are a flaming queen, there is still no comparision to being black and living in this country as a blackman in the early years of Pittsburgh.
The 1960s was 50 years ago. That was before many of us (including myself) were even born. I agree with SCR; it's extremely unfair for the city to keep getting lambasted for things that occurred generations ago. If a person chooses not to pursue higher education, for example, in 2013 in order to acheive the American Dream, how on earth is that the fault of something the city did 50 or 60 years ago? If people in our day choose not to become professionals, they cannot blame the city for that. Pittsburgh is an awesome city (a very diverse, progressive city, I should add) filled with opportunity for all people, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or creed. The past is the past--now let's move forward.
My Lithuanian and Polish ancestors experienced much discrimination and oppression in the early 20th century, yet they prospered. They achieved. They moved forward.
I'm a gay male. You don't think I experienced my share of homophobia and heterosexiam (keep in mind I lived in the South for a decade)? Of course I have. But I've done well for myself. I have no debt and a house paid for in cash. I've achieved, I've prospered.
Good for you! I'm glad you've done well! And just so there's no confusion you're not speaking to an underachiever. Quite the contrary, my life has been exceptional, but unlike you I clearly understand the reasons why. One important reason (among many) was because I was raised in a culture-of-success that doesn't exist in Pittsburgh. A culture that came to exist in the 1970s and 80s because other cities took the steps necessary to fix their past misdeeds and create that culture. Pittsburgh has only recently (in the past decade or so) started to take those same steps.
So to make a long story short, 50 years ago there were problems. Most cities fixed those problems and moved on. Pittsburgh was 30 years late... That's the issue and that's why the black community in Pittsburgh lags the rest of the nation. So I have no idea what your issue is?
btw... as a gay male you should be thanking black people for opening all of these doors you've successfully walked through.
1.) In Pittsburgh, the statistics regarding black progress are abysmal, when compared to the rest of the country. The reasons for this are
(a) The remaining steel plants emit a some toxin that makes black people (and only black people) underachieve
(b) Pittsburgh was 30 years late in providing access
We've had black posters here suggest another possibility as well in the past.
(c) following the bust of the steel industry, the black middle class largely moved out of Pittsburgh in order to seek economic opportunity elsewhere. The modern black population in Pittsburgh is thus disproportionately impoverished and lacking in the educational attainment and economic advancement that is seen in the black community elsewhere.
The black middle class there has a notable presence as I thought they were larger than 22 & 29%. I'll keep referring it as a diverse neighborhood though yah it could be taken off the map...
I think it feels a bit higher than it actually is because a lot of the white people are old timers that aren't outside as much. Also Morrow is a majority black school, so you have those students and their parents in the neighborhood for that reason too. Portions of BH very well could become a middle class black area in maybe 10 years or so, but for now I think it's just a diverse middle/working class neighborhood. Unless someone is unusually focused on specifically living in a majority black area, BH should be on their radar. It's not like a black family would feel out of place there like they might in other parts of the city and county. I can't say whether it should be removed from your map or not; it's similar to the Ohio and Mon river areas you were talking about in another post in that there isn't much self-segregation.
Another area I noticed on the Census tool is the census tract of Marshall-Shadeland between Woodland and Marshall. I know opinions always vary on MS, but I would consider that part to be pretty stable and middle to lower-middle class.
We've had black posters here suggest another possibility as well in the past.
(c) following the bust of the steel industry, the black middle class largely moved out of Pittsburgh in order to seek economic opportunity elsewhere. The modern black population in Pittsburgh is thus disproportionately impoverished and lacking in the educational attainment and economic advancement that is seen in the black community elsewhere.
Sounds completely plausible and perfectly reasonable. Do you know of any data that reflects this?
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