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didn't houston just elect an openly gay female mayor? Texas is a big state. didn't PA have a legislator that wanted to stop evolution from being taught in schools recently? anyway, back to the Pittsburgh market and OTHERS, I do think places like Phoenix, while attractive in many respects, benefitted from unsustainable job growth related to the housing bubble...in other words, a huge industry of moving people TO phoenix. that said, some of the reasons places like Texas and Phoenix attract people isn't just sun, but a good place to run businesses (and therefore hire employees) and is something ALL of Pennsylvania could learn from. We have a Metcalfe from Butler County trying to "crack down on illegals because there aren't enough jobs" but it's all political BS. where is he trying to lower PA's 9.99% corp income tax rate (highest in the nation)? where is he trying to tackle PA's notorious bureaucracy? In other words, he'd rather pass an inflammatory bill banning new residents than make it easier for us to make a living. and that's to say nothing of the assbackwards wiune and spirits system here.
They're illegal; they aren't allowed to be in the country. What is so terrible about making it a felony to hire illegals and to make it a felony to bring them to the state for profit (in other words to save money by hiring people who don't know the US federal law so a lower wage can be paid)? What is so terrible about deporting people who are illegally in this country (how do we know one of them aren't trying to hard us)?What is so hard to understand about the world illegal? Why do some people think it is acceptable for people to be here illegally? I don't understand the mentality of the left on some things (this is coming from someone who generally approves of Obama) If people can come here illegally, why can't I go to a different country and live illegally for years without getting caught? Sorry for the somewhat of a rant that prob belongs in the illegal immigration forum but yea the laws being proposed are already there, it's the just the fed are strained and can't enforce them.
This probably isn't the place so I will keep this brief:
The problem with Arizona-style laws isn't that they give a role for state officials to play in enforcing federal immigration laws, because that is already true under federal law.
The problem is specifically with how these laws expand the powers of state officials beyond what federal law currently allows, in ways that are likely unconstitutional. Specifically, they allow state officials to require proof of lawful status from people they merely suspect of being illegal aliens, and they provide for the arrest of anyone who fails to produce such proof on demand (which requires creating a new category of state crime, since federal law doesn't allow that).
Those procedures are not constitutionally adequate (note, for example, how citizens would be subject to arrest if they merely fail to have proof of their status in their possession, and a state official is suspicious about their status). Moreover, they are an attempt to modify the existing system for the enforcement of federal immigration laws put into place by Congress--which, again, already defines a role for state officials--and states are not allowed to unilaterally modify federal law enforcement systems. And as a simple policy matter, these laws are ripe for abuse, and could actually hamper the effective enforcement of other laws.
They're illegal; they aren't allowed to be in the country. What is so terrible about making it a felony to hire illegals and to make it a felony to bring them to the state for profit (in other words to save money by hiring people who don't know the US federal law so a lower wage can be paid)? What is so terrible about deporting people who are illegally in this country (how do we know one of them aren't trying to hard us)?What is so hard to understand about the world illegal? Why do some people think it is acceptable for people to be here illegally? I don't understand the mentality of the left on some things (this is coming from someone who generally approves of Obama) If people can come here illegally, why can't I go to a different country and live illegally for years without getting caught? Sorry for the somewhat of a rant that prob belongs in the illegal immigration forum but yea the laws being proposed are already there, it's the just the fed are strained and can't enforce them.
That's the problem. The government looks the other way when the big businesses hire illegals. Until it gets to be a big problem. Then it's a couple of crack downs, some fines for which they get tax breaks and back to business as usual....
As long as businesses get away with being able to pay illegal immigrants pennies on the dollar for what they'd pay Americans, illegals will stream over the border to work.
They're illegal; they aren't allowed to be in the country. What is so terrible about making it a felony to hire illegals and to make it a felony to bring them to the state for profit (in other words to save money by hiring people who don't know the US federal law so a lower wage can be paid)? What is so terrible about deporting people who are illegally in this country (how do we know one of them aren't trying to hard us)?What is so hard to understand about the world illegal? Why do some people think it is acceptable for people to be here illegally? I don't understand the mentality of the left on some things (this is coming from someone who generally approves of Obama) If people can come here illegally, why can't I go to a different country and live illegally for years without getting caught? Sorry for the somewhat of a rant that prob belongs in the illegal immigration forum but yea the laws being proposed are already there, it's the just the fed are strained and can't enforce them.
lots of things are illegal, speeding, underage drinking, smoking marijuana, driving across the border to buy alcohol from less backwards states...illegal doesn't make anything a top priority. and yes, you can move somewhere else and live illegally for years. I think it's total BS that you guys pretend to be worried about jobs when you've done nothing to improve out competitiveness. this is just pandering to the hate filled people who live in areas relatively unaffected by immigration. In PA, you generally get the most ambitious and hard working people since it's really not easy to get here. Mexicans come and settle in long abandoned neighborhoods in Reading, Philadelphia, Coatesville and make them better. they are often victims of crimes by legal residents who make up the bulk of the criminal element. by making cops act like immigration officers it means those crimes will go unreported. Worse, the current immigration laws are based on outright racism from another era. how does one come here legally? you either have to be a refugee or wait for a lottery. the whole system is messed up but let's be honest, there aren't enough jobs here not because of illegal immigrants, but because of asinine tax and regtulatory policies at the state level that have long kept PA's job growth rate below average. Don't go pretending your protecting my job when you do nothing to help the business climate, typical R hypocrisy. Far more damaging is the H1B program that is legal because big business has lobbying money while "illegals" take such lucrative jobs as picking mushrooms and washing dishes. I understand why arizona is concerned, it's a border state, we're not. 140k immigrants in 12.6 million people is a problem? how about the inability to pass a budget and have a reasonable level of job growth.
immigrants will come as long as there's work and as long as there's no work in mexico. while we can't control the history of corruption in mexico, we can eliminate the incredibly destructive drug war that is funding corruption there and bringing violence to various parts of mexico. funny how Americans like to blame everyone else but can never admit mistakes. at least, modern Americans, who seem to have little respect for people's rights or the constitution.
This probably isn't the place so I will keep this brief:
The problem with Arizona-style laws isn't that they give a role for state officials to play in enforcing federal immigration laws, because that is already true under federal law.
The problem is specifically with how these laws expand the powers of state officials beyond what federal law currently allows, in ways that are likely unconstitutional. Specifically, they allow state officials to require proof of lawful status from people they merely suspect of being illegal aliens, and they provide for the arrest of anyone who fails to produce such proof on demand (which requires creating a new category of state crime, since federal law doesn't allow that).
Those procedures are not constitutionally adequate (note, for example, how citizens would be subject to arrest if they merely fail to have proof of their status in their possession, and a state official is suspicious about their status). Moreover, they are an attempt to modify the existing system for the enforcement of federal immigration laws put into place by Congress--which, again, already defines a role for state officials--and states are not allowed to unilaterally modify federal law enforcement systems. And as a simple policy matter, these laws are ripe for abuse, and could actually hamper the effective enforcement of other laws.
Nice summary of legalities of the new law. Nothing racist about them but they do seem suspect, and I agree they could be abused. I am struggling with this issue, because it is clear that we have a culture of illegality, both in the immigrant groups, and in the employers, that simply will not obey the law without stricter enforcement.
In the case of hispanic peoples, a specific but hugely important case in the Southwest, the ethnic voting block is now so large that national leadership and courage on this issue is very unlikely, so we have a situation where a border state seems left out to dry, and overreacts.
Yet I share the frustration over the conflation of racism and desire for the rule of law. My wife works in a state office in Oregon, which is 50% hispanic, when the group is about 4% of the population (due largely to the preferred hiring of bilingual positions). Although everyone she works with is legal, of course, and most are citizens, many have parents and grandparents who do not speak English, and many likely arrived here illegally. So, it is family, and it is emotional. If you don't agree with them completely, it feels like you are attacking them. Unfortunately, the hispanic ethnic groups and illegal immigration are political siamese twins. So even though only a fraction of hispanics in America are illegal, our legislators and president are very likely to alienate the block by enforcing our laws, even if the majority of Americans desire it.
It is difficult, because ethnic identity, history, and numbers are very much a part of it. And although I would say racism is not what this is about, an undeniable ethnic element is very present on both sides of the issue, raising the chances of name calling and shrill or arbitrary behavior.
Counting Canadians who overstayed their student visas?
no good doughnut eating, beer swilling, ballet goers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
In the case of hispanic peoples, a specific but hugely important case in the Southwest, the ethnic voting block is now so large that national leadership and courage on this issue is very unlikely, so we have a situation where a border state seems left out to dry, and overreacts.
sounds pretty accurate to me. PArt of the problem, of course, isn't just the enforcement of law, but generally two sides that don't seem to be able to compromise. you've got people who want amnesty, others who want mass deportations, and no one who will agree to anything in between (one could argue this dynamic affects almost all of the issues congress addresses except plundering taxpayers, preferential treatment for cronies and interests, and spending irresponsibly). fact is, the laws need to be fixed, then enforced. and it wouldn't hurt to begin addressing problems that make so many people want to flee mexico and other latin countries (namely, the drug war though US agricultural subsidies are probably in there somewhere). and how about a trade agreement with colombia? people don't uproot their family and move far away risking arrest because things are hunky dory at home. It is a somewhat tricky issue because most Americans come from families who came here even if they were unwanted and worked for "pennies on the dollar." yes, they were often legal, but that's only because the laws were far more liberal then. indeed, the mass influx of hunkies, Italians, irish, etc led to the current laws designed to keep them out as they were viewed as inferior to English, germans, etc (the then dominant group).
I'm pretty sure illegal alien constructed means affordable. I'd venture to say a lot of Pitt's housing stock was built by immigrants (at a time when being legal was easy) where are arizona's jobs going to come from? they aren't selling for huge discounts because of pent up demand.
Not really. There is not too many affordable singles being built. If you follow any of the national home builders you would see three types of homes being built. There is the McMansions probably START close to 500k. The qualifying income is well over 100k.
The housing in Arizona is so affordable that entire developements are sitting empty because the owners can't afford the homes.
Not really. There is not too many affordable singles being built. If you follow any of the national home builders you would see three types of homes being built. There is the McMansions probably START close to 500k. The qualifying income is well over 100k.
The housing in Arizona is so affordable that entire developements are sitting empty because the owners can't afford the homes.
not sure what you're trying to say here. Arizona most certainly did have affordable homes when I visited back in 02. now, they have too many affordable homes. there aren't any jobs since such a large portion of people were employed in moving people to Az. nuts. my parents took pictures in miami of whole blocks of empty highrises.
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