I am tired of hearing how great Pittsburgh is! (Erie: car rental, ski resorts)

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Actually, the real reason why so many Pittsburgh area folks moved to the sun belt is because that's where the jobs were.

Pittsburgh took a huge kick in the head economically in the 1980's and is still recovering. Without a growing employment base, new immigrant groups really had little reason to come here. There were a handful of refugee type immigrants sponsored by charitable outfits like Jewish Family Services and the Catholic Church- but few who had a choice would choose to come here.

Not to say that racism doesn't exist, but "racism" isn't the reason why Pittsburgh doesn't have many new foreign born residents but the long term economic doldrums. Immigrants, particularly from poor countries, will put up with a lot of crap from the native population if there is opportunity. In the past generation, during the great migration of African Americans to the rust belt, those folks chose to move to Mon Valley communities because that is where the jobs were. It wasn't because Clairton folk had a more enlightened view of racial relations than folks in Etna and Millvale.

If you want to see migration here, get the economy really moving.

Quite a bit of truth to this. You're absolutely right that jobs are by far the biggest reason people move to a city--any city. The second reason is a tie between family being in the city and low cost of living. All the other things are frosting on the cake (for most people). And many people will put up with a lot of things they may not like, even weather and even serious issues like racism, if there are jobs in a city.

[fleetiebelle]

Originally Posted by Katiana

People have been moving to the sunbelt since the 1950s. Retirees are not going to Florida, Cali, Arizona, etc, for jobs. In addition, there is a general universal preference for warm weather.

Sunbelt - History and Overview of the Sunbelt States
Most Like It Hot | Pew Social & Demographic Trends

Of course, very few people were moving to the Sun Belt before air conditioning became standard, so they probably don't love the weather entirely.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

Of course, very few people were moving to the Sun Belt before air conditioning became standard, so they probably don't love the weather entirely.

Maybe not, but as someone once said to me on a hot, humid Illinois summer day, "I don't have to shovel heat". I do have a cousin who lived in Arizona and worked as a teacher. She left AZ to visit her family in Wisconsin in the summers (until she got married). Yes, air-conditioning helped the sunbelt a great deal. I found this interesting in the Pew article:

But not all of the top-ranking towns among heat lovers have hot climates. Four in ten say they would like to live in Denver — the overall favorite place to live among the 30 cities tested. Indeed, Denver is just as popular as sun-baked Phoenix among hot-weather fans — and more popular than Las Vegas or Dallas. San Francisco, known for its fog and chilly summers, and Seattle, famous for its frequent rains, also are among the top choices of those who would prefer to live in hotter places, suggesting that climate is only one of several factors that people use in deciding where they would like to live.

Denver: Has a rep for being cold but really isn't. Highs in the winter months (Dec, Jan, Feb) are 46, 47, and 49 respectively. Lots of sunshine. Warm, sunny days between the snowstorms.
Average Weather for Denver, CO - Temperature and Precipitation

Seattle: Neither hot nor cold; has a nice summer (so I've heard).

SF: Julie can tell us about the SF weather better than I can.

I think people like an absence of cold, cloudy weather.

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally Posted by OniNoKen

That's a fine conclusion to come to. And for the record, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind on it, b/c it's your life and all that.

Hiking: Yeah, I've noticed that hiking back east it is often times impossible to get that isolated feeling that came so easily back west. There's a spot near Roanoke, Va called Dragon's tooth that involved ascending steel rungs bolted into the cliff side that got me that, but in 5 years of Appalachian hiking, that's it. We recently did the Buttermilk Falls loop over by Ithaca New York, and we ran across someone about every 10 minutes. I still wouldn't mark the quality of the trail down due to population pressure though. Nothing here will match the backpacking I've done in the Rockies, but keep in mind, I had to drive 3 hours outside of Denver to get to a point that wasn't similarly pressured.

My favorite local hikes are in Slippery Rock state park, and then down around Ohiopyle, though Ohiopyle is crowded on any reasonably nice day. Slippery Rock is crowded around the trail head, but tappers off in a major way if you stick it out a bit, or take one of the longer trails. There's some state parks between here and Erie that offer some pretty decent hiking.

North Park: It just has more to offer than any place I've found short of Central Park in NYC. Massive swimming pool, more play ground equipment than you can shake a stick out, which is also spread out, meaning you generally don't have to worry about over crowding. Ice skating rink, Tennis courts, an off leash area for dogs, a solid bike/pedestrian loop with enforced speed controls on cars, a lake with boat rental facilities, bike rental facilities on the border, A nature center with a nature trail. That nature trail will get you the isolated feeling too, on all but the absolute busiest days. Plenty of rec sports facilities too, lots of picnic pavilions. It has enough land too that everything is spread out, and you generally don't feel like everyone has their elbow in your plate, so to speak. Really, I think it's a hidden gem for the area. Recently, they've added a ropes course to the park as well, with ziplines... it's expensive though.

I haven't run across all of those items in a single park anywhere else, and definitely not in a park where there is so much available without allot of interference between groups.

The water sport I do the most of is white water kayaking. So I've swam just about every river I've boated. >.<

Long story short: I would personally love to move to the front range of Colorado. It's my personal ideal place to live. But Pittsburgh really doesn't suck. (for us)

Thanks for your reply.

You mention your favorite local hikes are Slippery Rock state park (do you mean McConnells Mills? Or Moraine? I couldn't find a slippery rock park) and Ohiopyle.
I've been to ohiopyle once and did a loop trail along the river and the waterfalls. While it was nice, I'm not sure if it was worth ~ 2 hr drive. Maybe there are more scenic trails?
I have also been to McConnells Mills and feel the similar- it is definitely nicer hiking for the area but nothing worth writing home about.

A question for you: I'm curious what you would define as good hiking?

I think we just have a different opinion on what we like. When I think of hiking I think of reaching the top of a mountain and enjoying the view. Pittsburgh hasn't given me that so far. Personally I think eastern/NE PA has better hiking than here, which is probably why I think it is average in Pittsburgh.
You seem to be happy with a nice loop through the forest?

My theory (which could be wrong) is that if I need to drive ~2 hrs anyway to get to ohiopyle in Pittsburgh, I would Much rather drive 2 hrs from Denver or NC and get spectacular mountains.

As for North Park, I was unaware it offered as much as it does, and I will definitely be checking it out this summer. Also, I get what you say about swimming in the rivers ha, is ohiopyle the best bet to get into kayaking?

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by Katiana

SF: Julie can tell us about the SF weather better than I can.

I already posted this once today, but I don't remember which thread. Summer weather on the west side of SF.

We Love the Fog - SF West History Minute - Western Neighborhoods Project - San Francisco History

I really should be packing!

[ThumbingMyWay]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

OP: totally cool that you don't like Pittsburgh. It, like anywhere else, isn't for everybody.

But I do question your need to turn this into a thread. You're not the first person to dislike Pittsburgh, and you certainly won't be the last. You seem intent in your feelings, so it's not like anyone's going to change your mind. So why make this into a thread in the first place? Are you bored? Do you want attention? Do you enjoy inciting people?

Just curious is all.

Good question and I guess it's a combination of reasons (none if which you mentioned):
The main reason is probably that while reading through some Pittsburgh posts I came across a handful of people that said something along the lines of "the only people who view Pittsburgh negatively are people who have never been there or lived there" and "most people that complain about Pittsburgh can never give a reason why they don't like it."

So I felt I was someone who lived here, didnt love it, and could provide reasons why.
Also I hoped to give a different perspective to folks looking to move here.
And finally, I wanted to see if anyone else here felt like I did. I felt like every post I read about Pittsburgh only pointed out the positives, and right or wrong, I wanted to see if I was the only one who thought it wasn't that great.

And as a bonus, I was curious what people had to say about some of my other relocation choices.

[Katarina Witt]

^^This forum does have its share of "cheerleaders". I think the thread is totally appropriate. After all, this is a discussion board.

[ThumbingMyWay]

^^ thank you. For some reason those reasons above we're enough to get me to sign up as a member and make this my first post.

[Pghuser]

Go for Denver if you have the choice. Awesome city.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by ThumbingMyWay

Good question and I guess it's a combination of reasons (none if which you mentioned):
The main reason is probably that while reading through some Pittsburgh posts I came across a handful of people that said something along the lines of "the only people who view Pittsburgh negatively are people who have never been there or lived there" and "most people that complain about Pittsburgh can never give a reason why they don't like it."

So I felt I was someone who lived here, didnt love it, and could provide reasons why.
Also I hoped to give a different perspective to folks looking to move here.
And finally, I wanted to see if anyone else here felt like I did. I felt like every post I read about Pittsburgh only pointed out the positives, and right or wrong, I wanted to see if I was the only one who thought it wasn't that great.

And as a bonus, I was curious what people had to say about some of my other relocation choices.

I didn't see your posts as negative. You had good reasons why you don't like Pittsburgh and thoughtful questions. You are doing the kind of research that I did when I was looking for lower cost place to live outside the Bay Area.