A Strategic Plan for Pittsburgh (Carnegie, Elizabeth: apartment, to live in, groceries)

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

Not taking it over anything but the funding. Otherwise people with money just move out farther into the country (on roads subsidized by taxes building houses with mortgages subsidized by the taxes), form a school district with no poor people, leave it to others to fund the education for people who can't afford a $400,00 house, and then go to the internet and complain about shakedowns.

Setting tax rates and deciding how to spend it is just about all local school boards do.

Eliminate those functions, there isn't much left for these folks to do.

All school districts have poor people, and many people will still decide to move to the suburbs for a more bucolic life regardless.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by pman

while you could certainly argue that the "best" districts have no or very few poor, there are decent districts in the state that are real towns..that is, towns that include rich and poor and in between that are decent. much like the voucher push that found no traction in the suburbs where schools are good, consolidation will also find no traction. there is never just one solution.

It isn't just that some districts have no poor people, but that process leaves other districts with nothing but poor people and thus no tax base. Consolidation or more equal funding will probably happen one way or the other. What is happening in places like the Duquesne school district will either require state funding or merger. It isn't constitutional to deny kids an education because their parents have no money.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

It isn't just that some districts have no poor people, but that process leaves other districts with nothing but poor people and thus no tax base. Consolidation or more equal funding will probably happen one way or the other. What is happening in places like the Duquesne school district will either require state funding or merger. It isn't constitutional to deny kids an education because their parents have no money.

No one is being denied an education.

Duquesne is a shrinking city, it wouldn't be the first school district to merge or provide for their students to attend school in a neighboring district. This has been going on for a hundred years. Indiana Township, where my mother grew up, didn't have a high school so she went to Etna and my uncles went to Connelly in Pittsburgh.

There are solutions, there always have been solutions.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

The easiest way to address that would be to remove local funding for schools and do that on state-wide basis.

Pittsburgh already has the eleventh-highest spending per student of any school district in the state in 2010/2011 funding. Brentwood is the only school district in Allegheny County which spent more per student.

Regardless, states which have normalized funding between districts to some degree have variable outcomes. In California, it resulted in all public schools decreasing in quality, as many voters decided it was better to just have poorly-funded public education statewide, and then send their own kids to private school. Hawaii actually has all its schools run by a statewide department of education, and similarly everyone with money just seems to abandon the public school system.

That's not to say I don't think there might be other pluses to merging districts. Certainly it should cut down on overhead costs, for example. But there's no strong relation between the amount of money a district spends and the educational outcomes. There's high-scoring school districts which are expensive, and ones which are cheap. Similarly, there's low-scoring ones which are expensive and cheap.

Originally Posted by pman

you could break up the district into local schools as if they were suburbs

This might be a better idea, but I don't see what it would achieve. I suppose it would stop people from minority-heavy schools bidding into open slots at Colfax, which would result in test scores there improving, and more people liking the local school options. But it wouldn't do anything, for example, to get white students back into the schools in the Upper East End or the Northside.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Pittsburgh already has the eleventh-highest spending per student of any school district in the state in 2010/2011 funding.

Yes. It isn't very well run. Many of the cheaper districts aren't well run either, but they get away with it because of fewer legacy costs and because it also takes fewer resources to educate somebody with support at home.

[pman]

Originally Posted by eschaton

...
This might be a better idea, but I don't see what it would achieve. I suppose it would stop people from minority-heavy schools bidding into open slots at Colfax, which would result in test scores there improving, and more people liking the local school options. But it wouldn't do anything, for example, to get white students back into the schools in the Upper East End or the Northside.

I guess the point would be a shift to more local control, that could also be accomplished by giving principles more leeway. I'm not expert on schools but there are any number of incremental improvements, there is no magic bullet. for the city at large, everyone would love some magic transit solution, but improved off peak bus service would be a good start. for the northside, an extension of the T would be great, but so would restoration of the boathouse and fountain and addressing the atrocities committed in allegheny center. these are all things that make city living more attractive, some are more affordable than others. I think what we've seen though is that if the city is responsible with its money it can make targeted improvements and doesn't need to dump untold millions into "renaissance" projects to move the city forward.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by pman

for the northside, an extension of the T would be great, but so would restoration of the boathouse and fountain and addressing the atrocities committed in allegheny center.

There are atrocities committed in Allegheny Center?

The mall closed because Zayre's and Woolworth's went out of business and Sears moved to Ross Park.

Actually, I loved that mall because you could park underneath, ride the escalator or elevator to the shopping floor.

[pman]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

There are atrocities committed in Allegheny Center?

The mall closed because Zayre's and Woolworth's went out of business and Sears moved to Ross Park.

Actually, I loved that mall because you could park underneath, ride the escalator or elevator to the shopping floor.

architectural/design atrocities. that mall, or rather its placement on top of federal street with no provision for pedestrians, let alone cars, is an atrocity. of course, the planners didn't intend for you to walk, you were supposed to drive. of course, they may have been expecting an invasion from downtown and built the mal in such a way it would easily defend the high ground against the barbarians from the other side of the river. it's also incredibly ugly and dated. they eliminated a nice old park, the market house, and federal st would be better off if it still (or did again) had mixed use development in the center. the thing I'd most like to see is the elimination of that mall.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Duquesne is a shrinking city, it wouldn't be the first school district to merge or provide for their students to attend school in a neighboring district.

But they haven't actually done either of those things on a permanent basis. The district doesn't have the money to pay neighboring districts enough to take their students without a court order. It has now been under state control with nothing but a variety of temporary fixes for thirteen years, which means one whole class has gone from K to 12 without a solution that might work in the long term.

The Neverending Story: It's been 13 years since the state took over the failing Duquesne school system. So why haven't things gotten better? | News | Pittsburgh City Paper

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by pman

that mall, or rather its placement on top of federal street with no provision for pedestrians, let alone cars, is an atrocity. of course, the planners didn't intend for you to walk, you were supposed to drive. it's also incredibly ugly and dated. they eliminated a nice old park, the market house, and federal st would be better off if it still (or did again) had mixed use development in the center. the thing I'd most like to see is the elimination of that mall.

Actually, the fountain as well as the planetarium and Carnegie Library and music hall were retained in the plan, and there was a pedestrian only walking area outside the mall as well as access for pedestrians and public transport in the road between Allegheny 10 and the mall.

Further, it was intended as a mixed use development, with apartments, offices and retail businesses.


you have a point that it is "ugly" from the outside.