Priced out of the city! (Pittsburgh, Allentown: violent crime, contractors, living in)

[Uptown kid]

IMO Southern Brighton Heights still has more potential than East Deutschtown...

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Brighton Heights is going down, way down. I've talked to several real estate agents about this; there seems to be a very unfortunate consensus about the trajectory of southern Brighton Heights, and that is, it's quickly becoming another Marshall-Shadeland. The northern portion is nice, but definitely outside of my price range.

I'm keeping my options open. Troy Hill, lower Spring Hill, East Deutschtown (which I really think has potential), and the lower part of Spring Garden all appeal to me.

IMHO, Spring Garden is a dump with lots of vacant houses that weren't so hot when they were built. East Deutschtown is a series of vacant lots, with a lot of crappy houses as well. My sister dated a boy in the 70's who lived on Turtle Way- not a house left in that alley. I see its destiny as mostly parking lots and outbuildings for the North Side medical facilities. The big unknown is the former ARC house that was built as a bank at Madison and East Ohio. If AGH takes this sturdy building over, they'll be few residences over there. The northern part of Spring Garden Ave has a lot more merit as a place for inexpensive housing that isn't that sketchy.

Troy Hill is ok, if you have a car. But the least expensive areas out on Straubs Lane are a long trek to the bus or to any kind of shopping. And the close sections near Goettman St. are a tad dicey similar to Spring Garden.

Spring Hill has nice streets on the eastern portions, but still not very walkable for any thing. The western portions overlooking I279 are hanging on the edge of that hill and are inexpensive, but those are crazy backwoods streets like Solar and Gershon that remind me of Appalachia.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by aw_now_what

Your neighbors have no inkling which tenants are on Section 8. The term itself has become a colloquialism for bad housing and bad tenants, and sometimes code for black renters.

It really depends on a neighborhood. If it's a neighborhood where people have lived for generations, or at least many many decades, the neighbors know because they know the owners of the properties. All of the section 8s renters I know of are white so you're making a huge assumption about people using the term for black renters.

[Hopes]

I agree Spring Garden isn't going to improve. It has been that way for 50 years. There's not enough desirable about it for that to change.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Troy Hill's an awesome neighborhood. I'd definitely buy there if the right house came along. Garfield scares the hell out of me, though.

Garfield may well be coming back, a couple of snooty restaurants have moved into Penn Ave., and there seems to be real action. I drove down Penn from Target a couple of Fridays ago and the street was filled with yuppie type pedestrians, no one that looked like they were a pusher, pimp or hoe was seen at dusk.

[The King of Um]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

IMHO, Spring Garden is a dump with lots of vacant houses that weren't so hot when they were built. East Deutschtown is a series of vacant lots, with a lot of crappy houses as well. My sister dated a boy in the 70's who lived on Turtle Way- not a house left in that alley. I see its destiny as mostly parking lots and outbuildings for the North Side medical facilities. The big unknown is the former ARC house that was built as a bank at Madison and East Ohio. If AGH takes this sturdy building over, they'll be little residences over there. The northern part of Spring Garden Ave has a lot more merit as a place for inexpensive housing that isn't that sketchy.

Troy Hill is ok, if you have a car. But the least expensive areas out on Straubs Lane are a long trek to the bus or to any kind of shopping. And the close sections near Goettman St. are a tad dicey similar to Spring Garden.

Spring Hill has nice streets on the eastern portions, but still not very walkable for any thing. The western portions overlooking I279 are hanging on the edge of that hill and are inexpensive, but those are crazy backwoods streets like Solar and Gershon that remind me of Appalachia.

I recently talked to a neighbor who's friend bought a house in East Deutschtown. His friend, a lady who's very active in preservation, strongly believes the community is going to come back. I share that sentiment. East Deutschtown is too convenient to everything (Downtown, Strip District, the East End) not to make a comeback. Also, what's left of it is quite historic--mid to late 19th century Victorian architecture.

Troy Hill is definitely walkable for me. I like to walk much, much more than the average person.

The lower half of Spring Hill is walkable, at least for me.

And what's wrong will Appalachia? Yes, parts of Spring Hill do remind me of West Virginia! But I love West Virginia!

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Garfield may well be coming back, a couple of snooty restaurants have moved into Penn Ave., and there seems to be real action. I drove down Penn from Target a couple of Fridays ago and the street was filled with yuppie type pedestrians, no one that looked like they were a pusher, pimp or hoe was seen at dusk.

Which end of Penn? Towards East Liberty or towards the cemetery? I'm just curious because it looked like blocks and blocks of decaying storefronts when I drove through there a few months ago. There are a few places but I expected it to have many more businesses than I saw.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Which end of Penn? Towards East Liberty or towards the cemetery? I'm just curious because it looked like blocks and blocks of decaying storefronts when I drove through there a few months ago. There are a few places but I expected it to have many more businesses than I saw.

Actually toward both ends more than in the middle. I saw a fair number of young people near N. Mathilda and I saw a couple of fancy beaneries near N. Fairmont and N. Atlantic which had yuppie types around.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

I don't think BH is going down. Prices there are higher than ever. I think it'll peak because there's not a significant business district and it is kind of far from Downtown and the Central Northside, so there's only so far it can go up.

I'd like to be bullish on Brighton Heights, but outer city neighborhoods don't have a good track record in terms of remaining desirable nationwide, unless they're in the "favored quarter," which Brighton Heights certainly isn't.

That said, there's only so many displaced (or potentially displaced) poor people in the North Side to go around, and every single outer neighborhood can't fall, even if both Allegheny Dwellings and Northview Heights were closed. I think Brighton Heights is better positioned to maintain desirability than Observatory Hill, even though I like the housing stock of the latter much more.

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

I'd bet on Troy Hill or Garfield.

Troy Hill is fantastic, IMHO. The last cheap intact urban neighborhood in Pittsburgh. I think the potential of Garfield is being destroyed by those low-quality suburban infill houses Bloomfield-Garfield Corporation keeps building however. Penn Ave will come along over the next decade, but very little is going to remain intact behind it, which will cause redevelopment to lag for decades longer than it should.

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

IMHO, Spring Garden is a dump with lots of vacant houses that weren't so hot when they were built. East Deutschtown is a series of vacant lots, with a lot of crappy houses as well.

These are all perfectly defensible attitudes, but since you live in a 12-foot wide (IIRC) Lawrenceville rowhouse just like I do, they seem to be puzzling.

The major difference between Spring Garden/East Deutschtown and Lawrenceville is frame is predominant rather than brick. I'll be the first to admit that I have a brick preference, but there's plenty of frame rowhouse parts of the city, such as Polish Hill, Upper Lawrenceville, and Bloomfield, which are pretty desirable now.

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Troy Hill is ok, if you have a car. But the least expensive areas out on Straubs Lane are a long trek to the bus or to any kind of shopping. And the close sections near Goettman St. are a tad dicey similar to Spring Garden.

IMHO the best part of Troy Hill is between Gardner and Sundeman. By far the most diverse area in terms of housing stock. You can find brick rowhouses, standalone Victorians of size, craftsmen, even some suburban infill if it's your sort of thing. In contrast, the areas to the north and south of this are basically siding warrens ala Bloomfield (albeit usually with a few more original features of the houses maintained).

[PreservationPioneer]

The Garfield business district is nice, but the residential district is a mess. You have historic homes sitting next to vinyl sided infill with front yards. It's an urban catastrophe.