Fracking the Burgh: How will it influence population growth? (Penn: dangerous, safe)

[Q-tip motha]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

So I went to the local Erie premier of a fracking documentary called Triple Divide. It was a pretty awesome movie and made by Pennsylvanians. The filmmakers really focused on the water pollution associated with fracking and it made me wonder how will this influence population growth in the Pittsburgh region?

On one hand, our governor is very pro fracking and there are many gas wells surrounding Pittsburgh in areas like Butler county and there is a thought that many more wells may be drilled and a pipeline established. This sounds like it could really add to population growth for the region and create many jobs despite the potential negative environmental impact. More jobs usually means an increase of in-migration and could boost the population.

On the other hand, the pollution from fracking may have destroyed several water wells and threatens to pollute the Ohio and Allegheny river watersheds in the near future. In the documentary film I watched it appeared that many PA residents who were getting sick from the water and air pollution associated with these wells were being forced to move away from the fracking and sometimes out of the commonwealth. This is particularly interesting because Pittsburgh has had an air pollution and water quality problem prior to the recent fracking boom.

So politics aside, will fracking in the Pittsburgh region restore the population and lead to the next population boom or result in an unforeseen loss of population? I am not trying to argue for or against fracking in this thread, but to better understand how it might influence the greater Pittsburgh region in terms of population growth and jobs.

It won't. You'll see a higher incidence of people moving to the area for work if anything.


Furthermore most of the complaints about contaminating ground water are unfounded. MIT conducted a study in 2011 that found that out of all of the reported environmental incidents of ground water contamination none of them were result of the actual fracturing process.
The Future of Natural Gas

That isn't to say that the we don't need to highly regulate and monitor the process of extracting this resources to insure that the proper steps are being taken. Over half of the recorded incidents of contamination are easily preventable, and are associated with inadequately cementing the casing into wellbores so steps to minimize negligence should be taken. Make the resources companies accountable, but there's no need to stop the extraction of the resource.

I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to move here because of this though.

[Q-tip motha]

Originally Posted by Phil Ivey

From my own experiences and from hear say, fracking brings jobs, it brings jobs from Texas and down south up here.

Illegal's, living in temporary "trailer parks", Glorified job trailers really. Then buses to move them around to well pads and pipelines. Sure there are truck driving jobs and other misc. jobs. In the long run, these jobs aren't permanent.

I have some friends down in WV who have been supporting their families for the last decade working on these rigs who would disagree with you.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Phil Ivey

From my own experiences and from hear say, fracking brings jobs, it brings jobs from Texas and down south up here.

Illegal's, living in temporary "trailer parks", Glorified job trailers really. Then buses to move them around to well pads and pipelines. Sure there are truck driving jobs and other misc. jobs. In the long run, these jobs aren't permanent.

How do you know that the workers are 'illegals'?

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by Q-tip motha

It won't. You'll see a higher incidence of people moving to the area for work if anything.


Furthermore most of the complaints about contaminating ground water are unfounded. MIT conducted a study in 2011 that found that out of all of the reported environmental incidents of ground water contamination none of them were result of the actual fracturing process.
The Future of Natural Gas

That isn't to say that the we don't need to highly regulate and monitor the process of extracting this resources to insure that the proper steps are being taken. Over half of the recorded incidents of contamination are easily preventable, and are associated with inadequately cementing the casing into wellbores so steps to minimize negligence should be taken. Make the resources companies accountable, but there's no need to stop the extraction of the resource.

I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to move here because of this though.

Most of the study you posted is economics information and a review of the previous literature based on current and projected policies. The authors even discuss this on page 15 and the vast majority of the information contained in the study is related to supply and demand. You need to read the following studies/articles:

There are numerous regulatory challenges related to gas extraction from the Marcellus Shale. The Safe Drinking Water Act excludes the regulation of hydraulic fracturing by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). This exemption has allowed the hydrofracture fluid formulas to be kept confidential, complicating treatment efforts by wastewater plants of hydrofracture fluids.

Natural Gas Plays in the Marcellus Shale: Challenges and Potential Opportunities - Environmental Science & Technology (ACS Publications)

This study outlines some of the deficiencies in the research related to hydraulic fracturing and groundwater/surface water contamination:

http://www.law.uh.edu/faculty/theste...20Fracking.pdf

Even in a best-case scenario, it was very likely that an individual well would release at least 200 m3 of contaminated fluids.

http://www.hydratelife.org/wp-conten...llus-Shale.pdf

In 2011, the EPA doubled its estimates of CH4 leakage for the U.S. natural gas industry, in part because of the inclusion of emissions from shale gas production for the first time.

Faulty well construction appears to have caused one of the largest documented instances of water contamination, which occurred in Bradford County, Pennsylvania, after wells had been drilled but before any hydraulic fracturing took place.


http://www.gliccc.org/wp-content/upl...s_Polic....pdf


I think we can agree to disagree about the pollution associated with fracking, deep natural gas wells, and horizontal drilling. However, I hope you will agree that the research regarding groundwater contamination and these wells is still in its infancy and we are unsure of the long term effects on the environment related to these wells.

[UKyank]

^ obviously you haven't been doing in depth research in fracking as a hobby so out if curiosity what is the nature of your employment?

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by UKyank

^ obviously you haven't been doing in depth research in fracking as a hobby so out if curiosity what is the nature of your employment?

I work in the higher education setting and I conduct research on a regular basis. The DOE study bothers me because it is a small sample size of wells (with many readings over a long period of time), but still a small sample size. Additionally, the undisclosed natural gas company who allowed the research knew the well was going to be studied prior to the study being conducted. I have to confess the main reason I have become so interested in this subject is because my family currently has a few hundred acres in western PA and they have been contacted by some of the natural gas companies. No it was not like the movie Promised Land LOL, but my family members asked me to investigate the issue further because I have access to a wide variety of research. The links I have been posting are from Google Scholar, but I also have articles that I have retrieved through other databases that I cannot legally post here due to copyright issues. The conclusion I have come to after looking at the research is that the jury is still out, but the anecdotal evidence is scary and while I grew up in Pittsburgh, I have fond memories of visiting "the farm" and I would hate to see something happen to the ground or surface water and the air in the general vicinity of my family's farm.

My family members who live on the farm are starting to get a little frustrated because some of their neighbors are selling out and they have not reported any pollution yet, but the money is definitely changing them and many of them are abandoning their farming because of money they have coming in from the natural gas companies. Also, at this point it is just a few neighbors so my family is not sure if they should sell or not. I don't want to stop them from reaping the benefits of the fracking boom, but I just want them to be informed and I have sent them all the documentaries and they are watching what happens with their neighbors as a case study.

[Phil Ivey]

Originally Posted by UKyank

How do you know that the workers are 'illegals'?

Who cares, they aren't from around here.

[new believer]

I think a healthy mistrust of this industry is a good thing.

And the very last person I would trust is somebody who makes their living from gas drilling (that means you baconwhatever).

[Q-tip motha]

Originally Posted by new believer

I think a healthy mistrust of this industry is a good thing.

And the very last person I would trust is somebody who makes their living from gas drilling (that means you baconwhatever).

You mean you'd rather not comprehensively view the issue here.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Phil Ivey

Who cares, they aren't from around here.

So people emigrating up an area that has been seeing nothing but population loss is a bad thing? And to answer 'who cares', I would assume those working that you decide to smear with being illegal but having no proof of such would care.

As to the actual topic at hand I have seen nothing to suggest that fracking itself is inherently dangerous (and less so then the mining the area has dealt with for the past century plus) but rather operators that engage in illegal activity (for example dumping waste) for their own personal gain is the real danger & why close regulation is necessary