Pittsburgh gets love from K-thug. (Bedford, Oakland: crime, dorms, school)

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by Joe Magarac

I don't understand Krugman's explanation, either. A couple of points:

1. Krugman notes that the metro areas of both Pittsburgh and Detroit were doing comparably until about 2006. But Detroit went ghetto long before that: its white population went from 70% of the city in 1960 to 30% of the city in 1980. The white population didn't flee the area; it just fled the city for the suburbs. So we have the question: if sprawl caused Detroit to decline post-2006, why did it wait 25 years (from 1980 or so) to do it?

I think he's saying that sprawl created an environment that wasn't conducive to the sort of recovery that Pittsburgh has had. Not that sprawl single-handedly killed Detroit, but that sprawl put the nails in the coffin.

[Joe Magarac]

Originally Posted by ferraris

I think he's saying that sprawl created an environment that wasn't conducive to the sort of recovery that Pittsburgh has had. Not that sprawl single-handedly killed Detroit, but that sprawl put the nails in the coffin.

But this just begs the question of how Pittsburgh's alleged lack of sprawl made its recovery possible. As a city resident, I want to argue that metro Pittsburgh's growth from 2006-2012 was created by things that were happening in the dense urban core: legal and banking jobs downtown; academic and medical jobs in Oakland; technical jobs in Larimer (Bakery Square) and the South Side.

I just don't think that's true. As other people have already noted, some of metro Pittsburgh's emerging job centers are the sprawling north (Westinghouse in Cranberry) and the sprawling south (shale companies in Southpointe).

My guess is that metro Detroit lost jobs after 2006 because while Obama saved the car industry, the industry that it saved has been irrevocably changed: it is more automated and offers fewer jobs, at a lower salary and with fewer benefits, than it did before. And the car industry was Detroit's economy to a far greater extent than the steel industry was Pittsburgh's economy.

[TechCom]

Another one with the same topic.

BBC News - Detroit: Six ways 'shrinking' cities try to survive

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Joe Magarac

I don't understand Krugman's explanation, either. A couple of points:


2. Yes, Detroit has ghettos immediately adjacent to downtown. So does Pittsburgh: it's called the Hill District.

.

Actually, I-579 and the former Civic Arena are a buffer between town and the Hill. The formerly depressed areas on the north side were separated by town by the Allegheny River.

[fleetiebelle]

Not a huge shout-out, but this was on Marketplace this evening: Is a Detroit-style default coming to city a near you? | Marketplace.org

[jimmyev]

Originally Posted by politiker

Name one big city in America that's conservative. I'll wait (I can think of Miami but Republicans do very well there due to Cuban poltiics).

Fort Worth. Salt Lake City. Oklahoma City. Tulsa. Those are a few.

Anyways, I might be missing something here, but I thought that the only reason Pittsburgh didn't go bankrupt was because of Pennsylvania state law preventing it and requiring the city to go through that Act 47. So, in reality, the only thing separating what happened to Pittsburgh and Detroit is state law. In other words if Michigan state law didn't allow Detroit to go bankrupt and held the city residents liable for the city's debt like Pennsylvania state law does, Detroit wouldn't be 'going bankrupt.'

[zman63]

Originally Posted by jimmyev

Fort Worth. Salt Lake City. Oklahoma City. Tulsa. Those are a few.

Anyways, I might be missing something here, but I thought that the only reason Pittsburgh didn't go bankrupt was because of Pennsylvania state law preventing it and requiring the city to go through that Act 47. So, in reality, the only thing separating what happened to Pittsburgh and Detroit is state law. In other words if Michigan state law didn't allow Detroit to go bankrupt and held the city residents liable for the city's debt like Pennsylvania state law does, Detroit wouldn't be 'going bankrupt.'

You are correct. Pittsburgh has been in Act 47 since December of 2003. Act 47 in PA is a nice term for bankruptcy receivership. The mayor and council no longer have free reign on budget spending. The Act 47 board tells the mayor and council what they will accept for the budget. Union contracts and non union employee wages must also be approved by the oversight board. There was very little for capital investment in the budget until this year. The reason was Pittsburgh's credit rating was the lowest of any major US city (even Detroit) in this country's history until this year. Pittsburgh could not borrow to make capital improvements to city neighborhoods and properties due to "junk bond" status. However, the credit rating was raised recently to A- which is considered stable. Pittsburgh has around 700 million dollars in debt to deal with. The pension fund is a little over 60 percent funded.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by politiker

Name one big city in America that's conservative. I'll wait (I can think of Miami but Republicans do very well there due to Cuban poltiics). Even Houston has an openly gay democratic mayor.

Sprawl is a huge factor, crime, poor management. It's tragic. Grand Rapids and Ann Arbor look great though in comparison.

Although its true that there aren't many conservative cities, some like Detroit and Oakland are traditionally a lot more progressive than say, Pittsburgh or Dallas.

[Devout Urbanist]

Originally Posted by Joe Magarac

Yes, Detroit has ghettos immediately adjacent to downtown. So does Pittsburgh: it's called the Hill District.

A ridiculous comparison. The Hill District has some rough spots, but it is nothing like the areas near downtown Detroit. It is not an isolated ghost town surrounded by abandoned factories like Delray. There are still middle-class people -- black and white -- in the Hill District. Sugar Top is not a "ghetto." Crawford Square, which is the part of the Hill adjacent to downtown, is not a "ghetto." The bad areas around downtown Detroit make the Hill District seem like Mayberry.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

A ridiculous comparison. The Hill District has some rough spots, but it is nothing like the areas near downtown Detroit. It is not an isolated ghost town surrounded by abandoned factories like Delray. There are still middle-class people -- black and white -- in the Hill District. Sugar Top is not a "ghetto." Crawford Square, which is the part of the Hill adjacent to downtown, is not a "ghetto." The bad areas around downtown Detroit make the Hill District seem like Mayberry.

Tend to agree, the Hill may not be totally like Mayberry, but as a big dumb white guy I could walk there and not get hassled.