Should Pittsburgh consider turning some areas zoned multi-family back into single-family? (Butler: apartment complex, rental)

[eschaton]

It's been talked about on the forum that a number of the larger Victorians which were chopped up into apartments are now being "undivided." This is particularly happening in Highland Park, East Liberty, and "Friendship," but is also happening to a lesser extent elsewhere.

For the most part, however, this is not reflected in zoning. Take a look at the Pittsburgh zoning map. Across large swathes of the city you are allowed to subdivide houses into two or three units (dark orange) or even more units (medium orange).

While in general it is true that it's poor urban planning to zone for lower density (particularly now that our number of households seems to be rising), there's something to be said for limiting the extent to which any further houses can be subdivided. First, it ensures that more of the historic integrity of the houses will be retained. Second, it makes it more likely houses will be owned by homeowners rather than landlords, and thus be more well-maintained in general. Perhaps most importantly, by somewhat limiting the number of apartment conversions which can be done, there will be further incentives to build new apartments in Pittsburgh.

Thoughts?

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Are you suggesting forcing currently subdivided homes to be converted back into single family homes by force of law, or simply stating consideration should be made to not allow further subdivision of homes into more units than they already have?

I've been attempting to coerce my landlord into selling me his home, and over time converting it back into a single family unit, first by combining the upper two apartments and then adding the first floor unit into the mix. I'm not sure whether it would be worth it in the long run or not, though. The amount of work and money that it would take is seemingly enormous, and I can't imagine the house would be worth enough post-reno to break even.

[robrobrob]

I think this is a great idea for some areas. A friend sold a place in Morningside and he debated about keeping it and turning it into a multi-unit rental. He said legally it would have been easy.

Aspinwall has done something similar with much success. I don't know the specifics but it might have to do with parking. For some reason when a duplex is altered I think parking becomes an issue that is almost insurmountable. Maybe requiring too much?

[trackstar13]

I am not sure I would support the city arbitrarily changing the zoning of properties. Sometimes when it comes to these types of issues I am more of a Libertarian. Maybe the city could instead offer incentives for landlords who change the zoning back to single family and either move into the property or sell to create single, owner occupied housing.

[Copanut]

Put a moratorium on converting single family dwellings to multi. I believe they did that in Bellevue.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

Are you suggesting forcing currently subdivided homes to be converted back into single family homes by force of law, or simply stating consideration should be made to not allow further subdivision of homes into more units than they already have?

You cannot force anyone with a prior usage to spend money to comply with zoning changes. Everyone gets grandfathered in. It's why there are still some rowhouses in the Strip District despite it all being theoretically zoned industrial. But one the zoning changes, you cannot alter the usage further without going through a hearing process for approval, where community groups can form an effective veto on your plans.

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

I've been attempting to coerce my landlord into selling me his home, and over time converting it back into a single family unit, first by combining the upper two apartments and then adding the first floor unit into the mix. I'm not sure whether it would be worth it in the long run or not, though. The amount of work and money that it would take is seemingly enormous, and I can't imagine the house would be worth enough post-reno to break even.

I think it all depends upon the house. Some keep most of the original house intact, so all you need to do is change where a few doorways are, and rip out the second-floor kitchens, and you're good to go. In general this should be much cheaper than a gut/restoration, because (assuming the first-floor kitchen and bathrooms are okay) the work is mostly demo.

Originally Posted by robrobrob

I think this is a great idea for some areas. A friend sold a place in Morningside and he debated about keeping it and turning it into a multi-unit rental. He said legally it would have been easy.

Looking on the map, Morningside between Heths and Swan from Stanton to Wellesley, along with the East side of Duffield can be turned into two units. The few houses in Morningside directly along Stanton can be converted into three units. Oh, and that weird little area up by Butler Street is also zoned for two units. So I guess he owns in one of these places.

I find it interesting that there's literally no multi-unit zoning anywhere in Lawrenceville. Well, there is one spot, but it's coterminous with an apartment complex on 46th which has been there for quite awhile. A fair amount of houses in the neighborhood are subdivided, but they must have been "grandfathered in" from an earlier time.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

I believe a similar zoning change was made in Crafton a while back, leading to the conversion of many of the large homes along Bradford back into single family units. You just hope that the people who initially converted them into apartments didn't bungle too much of the original architecture/details.

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I think it all depends upon the house. Some keep most of the original house intact, so all you need to do is change where a few doorways are, and rip out the second-floor kitchens, and you're good to go. In general this should be much cheaper than a gut/restoration, because (assuming the first-floor kitchen and bathrooms are okay) the work is mostly demo.

Yes, the house I'm in is mostly in tact, although as it's been used as a multi-unit for a number of years, it is in need of some TLC. The current owner even retained and restored some of the original stained glass and kept all but one fireplace in near original condition.

If I decide to pursue at some point, I will defintely be starting other threads looking for help.

[selltheburgh]

Values of single family homes in desirable neighborhoods outweigh those of 2 unit properties.

A perfect example is my previous house in Highland Park. It is 2 units. Very nice inside (owner occupant quality) with the 1st unit being standard and nice enough. The 2nd unit has 3 bedrooms, 2 baths (master suite with granite, jacuzzi, heated floors, laundry), etc. I had 2 appraisals done and they averaged around 240k. Appraisers can only use multi-units as comps, not single families. Most multi-units don't sell or aren't as nice as my house was, so comps were limited.

At the same time, 3 single family houses on the same block sold. 2 in the lower 300's and one almost at 400k. I've been in all 3 and I know for a fact that my house was nicer than 2 of them and comparable to the most expensive one.

With that said, the cost to turn it back to a single family, taking out the 2nd kitchen, combining gas and electric, re-doing the 1st floor kitchen, and opening up the 1st floor plan to make it less choppy would have cost a lot of money (40-50k).

I decided to keep it as a rental for the next 10 years or so.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

I am not sure I would support the city arbitrarily changing the zoning of properties. Sometimes when it comes to these types of issues I am more of a Libertarian. Maybe the city could instead offer incentives for landlords who change the zoning back to single family and either move into the property or sell to create single, owner occupied housing.

Incentives would cost the city money, even if they amounted to tax credits. In contrast, just altering the zoning code is free.