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I just read with great interest an article in this morning's Pittsburgh Tribune-Review in which Leigh Gallagher, author of the book "The End of the Suburbs" profiles how shifting lifestyle priorities of a greater percentage of Americans may lead to an even greater resurgence of our historic cities in the future at the expense of today's autocentric newer suburbs and exurbs.
I was aghast to read that 3.5 million people in the U.S. now have a commute that is at least 90 minutes each way. The Pennsylvania Public Interest Research Group, based in Philadelphia, provided a study that indicated that Americans have been driving less, overall, for each of the past eight years as more people are moving to areas that are less car-dependent.
I'm inclined to disagree with those interviewed who cite ineffective reasons for supporting suburban/exurban living over urban living. Dale Walters, age 50, works Downtown as a software specialist and drives in daily from Murrysville. He says the city is, more or less, not rural enough. I live in a neighborhood adjacent to Downtown and have seen deer and wild turkeys. You can live much closer to Downtown than Murrysville---in places like Swisshelm Park, New Homestead, or Westwood---and still enjoy a lot of breathing room while not enduring an hour-long commute each way in gridlock. John Wyke, age 24, doesn't mind commuting from Penn Hills to Downtown and says the city isn't enough like Hoboken or Manhattan to convince him to leave Penn Hills. Having grown up less than two hours from "da city dat never sleeps" I was there frequently, and while he's correct in his overall assessment I'm incredulous that Penn Hills would offer a more chic, sophisticated, or urbane lifestyle than Downtown Pittsburgh, Shadyside, South Side Flats, Lawrenceville, or the Mexican War Streets.
As expected many of our own suburbanites honestly have no clue about the extensively diverse array of living options this city offers.
What do others think? Is the success the city of Pittsburgh has been experiencing over the past decade sustainable, or will fickle people soon once again abandon the city in favor of the suburbs? Will Peters Township, Cranberry Township, Murrysville, and other car-dependent exurban areas be the "slums of the future?" I'm already seeing places like Penn Hills and West Mifflin, "desirable" in their heydays two generations ago, declining.
I don't see too much difference between living in Hew Homestead or living in Murrysville or between living in Penn Hills or Swisshelm Park. I think what has people moving to cities is to be able to dump their cars, be within walking distance to all amenities, occupying less space, being outdoors or socializing more, being closer to work, and having public transportation options. Pittsburgh has many areas within the city that don't meet the definition of what someone might define as urban.
As an aside, driving through Murrysville is literally the worst thing anyone can ever do. 22 is terrible, everyone who drives it is very rude, and it's ugly. I don't know how someone who works downtown or in Oakland could subject themsevles to the Squirrel Hill Tunnels AND 22 to get home from work. Is Allegheny County that bad to deal with all of that just to get in to Westmoreland? At this point, I believe it is much easier and faster to get to Irwin and Greensburg than most of Murrysville.
I just read with great interest an article in this morning's Pittsburgh Tribune-Review in which Leigh Gallagher, author of the book "The End of the Suburbs" profiles how shifting lifestyle priorities of a greater percentage of Americans may lead to an even greater resurgence of our historic cities in the future at the expense of today's autocentric newer suburbs and exurbs.
I was aghast to read that 3.5 million people in the U.S. now have a commute that is at least 90 minutes each way. The Pennsylvania Public Interest Research Group, based in Philadelphia, provided a study that indicated that Americans have been driving less, overall, for each of the past eight years as more people are moving to areas that are less car-dependent.
I'm inclined to disagree with those interviewed who cite ineffective reasons for supporting suburban/exurban living over urban living. Dale Walters, age 50, works Downtown as a software specialist and drives in daily from Murrysville. He says the city is, more or less, not rural enough. I live in a neighborhood adjacent to Downtown and have seen deer and wild turkeys. You can live much closer to Downtown than Murrysville---in places like Swisshelm Park, New Homestead, or Westwood---and still enjoy a lot of breathing room while not enduring an hour-long commute each way in gridlock. John Wyke, age 24, doesn't mind commuting from Penn Hills to Downtown and says the city isn't enough like Hoboken or Manhattan to convince him to leave Penn Hills. Having grown up less than two hours from "da city dat never sleeps" I was there frequently, and while he's correct in his overall assessment I'm incredulous that Penn Hills would offer a more chic, sophisticated, or urbane lifestyle than Downtown Pittsburgh, Shadyside, South Side Flats, Lawrenceville, or the Mexican War Streets.
As expected many of our own suburbanites honestly have no clue about the extensively diverse array of living options this city offers.
What do others think? Is the success the city of Pittsburgh has been experiencing over the past decade sustainable, or will fickle people soon once again abandon the city in favor of the suburbs? Will Peters Township, Cranberry Township, Murrysville, and other car-dependent exurban areas be the "slums of the future?" I'm already seeing places like Penn Hills and West Mifflin, "desirable" in their heydays two generations ago, declining.
"Ineffective" reasons? It's a matter of opinion/personal preference. And no, I don't think Swisshelm Park, New Homestead, or Westwood are great comparisons to Murrysville, which is newer and much more upscale. How many people live in New Homestead, anyway?
Even in their heydays, Penn Hills and West Mifflin (which have been declining for many years--not the result of any kind of recent phenomenon) were nowhere near the same league as Peters, Cranberry, and Murrysville. Given that neither of us are seers, your prediction is as good as mine. But I think the more likely outcome is that instead of cities becoming by-and-large desirable and suburbs by-and-large undesirable, there's going to be more of a balance--some city neighborhoods will improve; some suburbs will decline.
No doubt that city living has gained momentum across the country in the last decade for a lot of reasons: high gas prices, high maintenance costs for big houses and expansive lawns, lack of much to do culturally. But it will never be for everyone, and that's OK. I know several couples with teenagers who plan to ditch the commute and maintenance and move back to the city "once the kids are out of school." So I guess there's still that terror that some parents have that their kids are somehow going to be deprived unless they go to a suburban school. Which gets into that whole city vs. suburban school thing.
Judging from the development in Pittsburgh since 2000, I'd say that the quality of life is getting much better. There's a nice cross-section of people moving in, including young families, singles, gay couples, and retirees who like the convenience of being a few minutes away from restaurants, shops, museums, libraries, coffee shops, galleries, neighborhood parks, and being able to take an evening walk and see the neighbors. I'd say that the bigegst draw is not being completely car-dependent for everything. Saves a lot of cash.
What do others think? Is the success the city of Pittsburgh has been experiencing over the past decade sustainable,
Sure. Also, IMO the success the suburban areas have experienced is also sustainable. Both can thrive, you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
will fickle people soon once again abandon the city in favor of the suburbs?
It's not about being fickle, it's about moving to different communities as you develop different needs. Young 20-somethings often have different needs than 30-somethings who are raising a family. When you get to be my age you have yet another set of needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
Will Peters Township, Cranberry Township, Murrysville, and other car-dependent exurban areas be the "slums of the future?"
Doubtful, especially since they seem to be attracting quite a few corporations. They seem to be thriving.
As long as more space and less taxes remain a priority to Americans the suburbs won't be going away any time soon. Besides, we live in an absolutely massive country where land is in abundance, there is no point for us to all live on top of each other. Both can co-exist and one style of living will never completely trump the other.
Location: Plum Borough, east suburb of Pittsburgh, PA
144 posts, read 224,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood
Even in their heydays, Penn Hills and West Mifflin (which have been declining for many years--not the result of any kind of recent phenomenon) were nowhere near the same league as Peters, Cranberry, and Murrysville.
The bolded is definitely right. People weren't bailing on Penn Hills starting in the mid-90s and especially early 2000s exclusively because Penn Hills wasn't the avant garde anymore, and they wanted to go back to the city, or to a later era suburb. If it were that simple, then why don't other suburbs of the same era, such as Shaler and Kennedy, have the same problems? To answer that, keep in mind what neighborhoods Penn Hills is right next to, and how dangerous they had gotten (much worse than they are today), so much that some of the crime just crossed the border into Penn Hills.
Moreover, it was ironically Penn Hills' and it's school districts desirability at the time (even when there was newer development in nearby Plum, for example) that caused it's current troubles. Kids from underperforming schools illegally went to Penn Hills High School for better education and to play football. Unfortunately some of those kids were bad news, which made residents not want to send their kids to school. A relative also told me that there were rumors about Penn Hills and Wilkinsburg (which was much worse at the time) merging, and that set some people off. This lack of confidence in Penn Hills School District, I assume, discouraged a lot of families that might have considered moving in.
Sometimes I wonder, if Penn Hills, instead of bordering Homewood and Lincoln-Lemington, bordered Squirrel Hill or some other good neighborhood? Would they have avoided their current problems?
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Given that neither of us are seers, your prediction is as good as mine. But I think the more likely outcome is that instead of cities becoming by-and-large desirable and suburbs by-and-large undesirable, there's going to be more of a balance--some city neighborhoods will improve; some suburbs will decline.
I second this: there will be people who revitalize neglected areas, which will attract more people to city living. At the same time, people's living preferences run all over the place, from ultra-dense to living in an area with more animals than people, and everything in between. Moreover, a person's preferences, along with life circumstances, change over time. So I think all niches will be catered to in the future.
A lot of it is personal preference. People live in those far flung suburbs for a number of reasons - family, schools, location to job, taxes, housing type, etc. Maybe a combination of all those.
Say a couple grew up around the Murrysville area, like the area, and have family close by. They decide to live in that area, want a good sized yard, and decide to have kids because Franklin Regional is a good school district. The wife works at Forbes Hospital and the husband has a lawncare service that operates within the Murrysville area. That couple and lots of others liek them in our region have similar backgrounds. Thus, that is why they live where they do. Those people have no reason to live really close to Downtown as they don't deal with it in their daily life. Maybe once a month or so they will travel to the city areas. That is not enough to warrant living closer when they have other reasons to live in a suburb.
I am assuming we are talking only about people to live in the far suburbs and commute to work to Downtown or Oakland. I think one thing to keep in mind is that until about 2005 (and for a brief time in 2008), a gallon of gas around here was under $2.00. For a lot of those commuters, they didn't see gas as a big expense so they didn't really take into account that more mile in the commute = more gas used = big expense. Of course, things have changed and gas is in the $3.50 range and the cost of just about everything has increased. So people were able to tolerate driving further away because of low gas prices and thus booms in places like Cranberry, Murrysville, Peters, North Huntingdon since the year 2000.
Plus, maybe people living in Peters or Murrysville had jobs out that way and left that job (for whatever reason) and now have one Downtown but don't want to uproot their life in the suburb and thus choose to commute.
Some far suburbs have decent bus service, but most do not. In the places that do have it, it is pretty popular but it would be nice to have more people riding but that would require service level increase and thus increased funding.
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