Downtown: Bus-free? (Pittsburgh, Liberty, Oakland: taxi, to live, authority)

[pman]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

I have advocated using the T more to shuttle people in and out of town..If you want to get rid of the Bus Traffic.

A lot of those Wood/Smithfield buses could terminate at SHJ providing a free transfer To/From the "T"

and most North Side/West End buses could Terminate at Allegheny.

Of Course for this to works things are going to need to be tweaked and PAT needs sable funding so they know what they're working with.

- First the "T" would need to run with much more frequency (adding in SHJ-Allegheny Subway Shuttles) service during the Rush needs to be every 2 mins or less between SHJ and Allegheny. Off Peak Weekday every 5 mins. Evenings 5-10 mins. Late Nights every 12 mins.. Saturdays every 10 mins all day and evening, Sunday every 15 mins all day and evening (Weekends are not accounting for North Shore events)

- Free Transferring between SHJ and Allegheny. Make Station Sq apart of the "FREE" Fare Zone

- Outside of at least 10 mins "T" service headways bus departures should be interlined with the "T" schedules. (i.e Late Nights/Sundays when T is running at greater than 10 mins headways bus schedules would be coordinated with the "T".

- I would create an "Allegheny Transportation Center" modeled something like the "Frankford Transportation Center" in Philadelphia. so that numorous buses could idle there.

there's also a marked dropoff in ridership outside of rush hour for a lot of the routes that require a transfer at frankford, which is nearly 9 miles from the main business district. if you were to implement such a plan you would only want to do it at rush hour and maybe special events otherwise buses should continue to access the core directly. I hope no one is complaining there are too many people downtown at night and on weekends. most of the "in" neighborhoods have direct access to center city without a transfer. something to keep in mind. even so it would be more effective to allow parking rates to rise so fewer people choose to drive in for work

[Hopes]

Ridership would decrease dramatically for routes forced to transfer at the T.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by pman

there's also a marked dropoff in ridership outside of rush hour for a lot of the routes that require a transfer at frankford, which is nearly 9 miles from the main business district. if you were to implement such a plan you would only want to do it at rush hour and maybe special events otherwise buses should continue to access the core directly. I hope no one is complaining there are too many people downtown at night and on weekends. most of the "in" neighborhoods have direct access to center city without a transfer. something to keep in mind. even so it would be more effective to allow parking rates to rise so fewer people choose to drive in for work

Another reason to think about transforming Allegheny into a Transit Hub, think of all TOD that could take place around it, see it as Transportation Hub various business could thrive with all that passenger flow happening over there...Right at Reedsdale across the street from the "T", in that Parking Lot I could see development of Apts, with Street level retail (i.e a DD/Starbucks, CVS/Walgreens, etc) would do very well there. The parking can be shifted to the otherside of the station.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Another reason to think about transforming Allegheny into a Transit Hub, think of all TOD that could take place around it, see it as Transportation Hub various business could thrive with all that passenger flow happening over there...Right at Reedsdale across the street from the "T", in that Parking Lot I could see development of Apts, with Street level retail (i.e a DD/Starbucks, CVS/Walgreens, etc) would do very well there. The parking can be shifted to the otherside of the station.

those things can and should happen without forced transfers though. the main limitation on development are the steelers who want more structured parking to replace "lost spaces." part of the goal of the nsc was to shift parking just as you mention but it seems the city is forcing more downtown parking instead (ura garage, etc)

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by pman

those things can and should happen without forced transfers though. the main limitation on development are the steelers who want more structured parking to replace "lost spaces." part of the goal of the nsc was to shift parking just as you mention but it seems the city is forcing more downtown parking instead (ura garage, etc)

Not really....You wont have the volume of people coming through there without Transfers....except on Event Days. You need need the Volume of people for those business to thrive in that corridor and on non-game days its not enough people that transverse through there.

Just like those businesses around the FTP in Philly, do you really think they could survive if not for the vast amounts people transferring to an from the Market Frankford line and Buses.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by Debbie1125

Read the comments after the story. I did, and noticed a majority of those in favor of this plan are people who drive. My grandfather had a name for this attitude "hooray for me and the heck with you". Actually he didn't use the word heck...lol.

Exactly. Car culture vs bus culture are two separate entities. I ride the bus every day and loathe those random days when I need to drive in, park at the civic arena site, and walk in. I'm guessing there is a large portion of drivers who won't even think about getting on a bus. The majority of downtown workers drive, so of course they will be in the majority. But I'd advise drivers to be a little more thoughtful to those who do ride the bus. While the bus may add to the congestion already caused by cars, that is roughly 60 people who aren't adding to the mess with their cars. And I'm fine with the circle route using Liberty, Grant, and the Boulevard. But get much beyond that and you are adding minutes to my commute. I'm ok with the extra walk, not OK with the extra commute time.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by pman

there's also a marked dropoff in ridership outside of rush hour for a lot of the routes that require a transfer at frankford,

There has been some of this in Pittsburgh, how has it affected ridership on the Ohio River Blvd. routes that terminate at the Casino and require riders continue on the T to town and beyond?


I can't see this as really a positive, it can't help but stretch out a long bus commute through town for those taking PAT.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Ridership would decrease dramatically for routes forced to transfer at the T.

Definitely. I think even with hypothetical rush hour service of trains running every two minutes you would still see a drop in ridership. Say you want to go from the North Side to Oakland or East Liberty, you are talking about a three legged trip.

If PAT wants to make use of the T, they need to extend the T. That would get buses out of downtown *and* be a positive thing for riders. It's a shame transit funding is such a low priority in this state/country. It can't be *that* expensive to run some T-tracks down surface roads through the North Side and Ohio river towns.

[pman]

Originally Posted by trlstreet

Exactly. Car culture vs bus culture are two separate entities. I ride the bus every day and loathe those random days when I need to drive in, park at the civic arena site, and walk in. I'm guessing there is a large portion of drivers who won't even think about getting on a bus. The majority of downtown workers drive, so of course they will be in the majority. But I'd advise drivers to be a little more thoughtful to those who do ride the bus. While the bus may add to the congestion already caused by cars, that is roughly 60 people who aren't adding to the mess with their cars. And I'm fine with the circle route using Liberty, Grant, and the Boulevard. But get much beyond that and you are adding minutes to my commute. I'm ok with the extra walk, not OK with the extra commute time.

I thought I saw that half of downtown workers take transit. of course, that isn't including non-workers, still, it makes you wonder why some politicos are so quick throw transit riders under the bus so to speak

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

There has been some of this in Pittsburgh, how has it affected ridership on the Ohio River Blvd. routes that terminate at the Casino and require riders continue on the T to town and beyond?
I can't see this as really a positive, it can't help but stretch out a long bus commute through town for those taking PAT.

setting up a transfer at east liberty would probably be more similar to an FTC type of set up. the T just isn't rapid transit, it's just an underground trolley.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by pman

the T just isn't rapid transit, it's just an underground trolley.

Too true. It's a very slow train.