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If you could go back to 1993 you forgot the worst neighborhood in the city. Fairywood was most impoverished and crime ridden city neighborhood until the early 2000's when Westgate Village projects (Now Emerald Gardens) and Broadhead Manor housing projects closed. The fire dept would not go down there without a police escort and the police had one patrol car and jail wagon assigned to the neighborhood 24/7. The Giant Eagle and Hills department stores (where UHaul is) that were in the dilapidated retail buildings on broad head-fording road was like shopping in the OK corral.
Some out of town developer bought the whole west gate village projects for a million dollars and renovated all the buildings and renamed it emerald gardens. If you drive further down broadhead fording road you see a huge vacant lot where a city elementary school once stood, closed city swimming pool and low income community center across the street. Then you have what remains of the single family homes on the left that are mostly rundown and drug dealer ridden. Then across the street is what remains of the old broadhead manor project. The buidings that closed in 2004 when the area flooded. Only a 1/3 of the broadhead housing project was left standing up to it flooded in 2004. The rest of the complex was torn down before then as you can see the vacant lots with roads going through them.
Ah I did forget "F-Dot Wood", though I know its story well. "Down Low Fairywood," the residential section off Broadhead Floring Rd (Fairywood St, W Prospect Ave, Mazzete Pl) is now actually significantly less drug ridden than when it was ran by the now defunct Down Low Goonies branch of the Westside Convictz street gang even 3-5 years ago. Yet like I posted earlier the westside of town was forever changed by the closing of those two hell holes.
Ah I did forget "F-Dot Wood", though I know its story well. "Down Low Fairywood," the residential section off Broadhead Floring Rd (Fairywood St, W Prospect Ave, Mazzete Pl) is now actually significantly less drug ridden than when it was ran by the now defunct Down Low Goonies branch of the Westside Convictz street gang even 3-5 years ago. Yet like I posted earlier the westside of town was forever changed by the closing of those two hell holes.
You are right it ruined sheridan, crafton heights and mckees rocks. All of those residents had to go somewhere. In talking with a police sergeant, who has been on the force 25 years he said fairywood was the worst. He also said when those projects closed it left the west areas and the rocks in shambles.
There is a lot of vacant acreage in the Hill that used to have homes on them, the population has certainly decreased since that point in time. I'm wondering if there is enough business for an enterprise of this size in the neighborhood.
Anybody know the story about the newer iga in beechview? It opened 3 yrs ago replacing a defunct foodland. I heard this store lost a few mil already and was recently sold to a group of latinos?
Probably in 20 years, it will become something livable and attractive. The Hill District separates PA's 2nd and 3rd largest business districts (downtown and Oakland). It is attractive land filled with one giant ghetto. If I had a pipe dream it would be downtown greatly expanding into portions of the Hill District with new skyscrapers and Oakland expanding as well. A livable, vibrant Hill could be attractive to young professionals and fresh college grads. Here's how it would go: Pitt attracts more students to attend school. After they graduate, a booming Pittsburgh economy will attract them to stay. Grads move one neighorhood over (the Hill) and work downtown. They essentially live in between their college neighborhood and work location. But alas, it is all a pipe dream!
I hope your pipe dream comes true, and I suspect the chances are good for the locational reasons you cite. Urban renewal is rarely fast anywhere, and your 20 year estimate is likely reasonable. That's not Pittsburgh's fault. It's life. I first came to Pittsburgh in 1996 and the differences in downtown and the East End are palpable. Uptown Kid's very informative timeline on the Hill district describes progress too, but there's obviously a long way to go. I do remember being quite scared even getting a bus through there in the 90's - on my first visit to the Sharp Edge in fact. I'm happy that hasn't changed.
Unfortunately we all have a limited window of time on this world, and the pace of change in places often doesn't align with our the pace of our lives the way we wish it would. The trick is to be in the right place, for you, at the right time. I could have probably moved here any time in the last decade, but didn't want to as the place and time weren't right. Right now they are. Bemoaning slow (but almost certainly inevitable) progress on forums like this is really not a hugely profitable use of your limited time on this mortal coil. It'd be ok though if you were funny.
When you're pghdude48, post back on here your impressions of the hill district. I'll be interested to see what you say. (Ok, I'm lying, I don't really care about what you think )
I generally agree with Uptown Kid here. As I see it, there are three remaining "turning points" for the Hill District.
1. When they close the last of the old Bedford Dwellings, which is apparently coming within the next few years. I have no idea where the residents will go. Obviously fitting with previous projects they'll build some mixed-income infill in Lower Hill/the lower part of the Middle Hill, but this will only be a fraction of the old residents. There is no nearby affordable neighborhood to absorb the spillover, as was the case in the Southern Hilltop and the West End. I highly doubt they'll be staying in the East End in general, as even in the remaining rough neighborhoods I don't think they'll be room to house them (unless they go crazy with that new Larimer development). Most likely they'll move to an already declining part of the Southern Hilltop, West End, or outer North Side.
2. How the Penguins redevelop the Civic Arena site obviously could be key. At this point there is essentially nothing wrong with most of Crawford Roberts, it's just forgotten due to the moat of parking lots cordoning it off from downtown. A decent, mixed-use infill project could tie it in and have the Lower Hill become a desirable place to live. On the other hand, if they stick a USX-style office park there, it will pretty much stagnate as is.
3. Another issue is if/when Uptown turns. I think Uptown's transformation will be key, as it will ultimately turn around rough but intact areas like De Raud and Moutine Streets, as well as working its way back up into the Lower Hill via Dinwiddie.
Outside of this, there is the bleed-over of Oakland to consider. My understanding is West Oakland has been stagnant for many years, although this is beginning to change a bit with the recent Oakland Portal project. If West Oakland ceases to be sketchy, it probably will dramatically increase the desirability of the Oak Hill apartments as well. Similarly, I could eventually see desirability flipping those two blocks of houses behind the VA Hospital, and eventually the Centre Avenue corridor, as they're relatively desirable places to be if you want quick access to Oakland.
Sugar Top is it's own thing. Once you get off of Herron, it's pretty astounding how much more intact that it is compared to the Hill District at large. Something like 85% of buildings are standing, often in good condition. The Schenley Heights area is already desirable, as are the backwoods streets closer to Polish Hill. I can only think the main reason why it's not become desirable is residual racism - both people never exploring the area because it's a black neighborhood, as well as not considering it as an option because it's a black neighborhood. It does lack a business district, so it will never be hip, but I could see it turning into a more racially mixed Greenfield (with nicer housing stock) eventually.
Edit: I should say I don't think the "core" of the Hill (between Herron and Kilpatrick, and north of Centre) is going to change any time soon. Infill is prretty much only being built now in the Lower Hill, and even if it becomes safe, I expect demolitions here to continue. It will be largely urban prairie minus the weird enclaves of later development like Francis Court within two decades.
I generally agree with Uptown Kid here. As I see it, there are three remaining "turning points" for the Hill District.
1. When they close the last of the old Bedford Dwellings, which is apparently coming within the next few years. I have no idea where the residents will go. Obviously fitting with previous projects they'll build some mixed-income infill in Lower Hill/the lower part of the Middle Hill, but this will only be a fraction of the old residents. There is no nearby affordable neighborhood to absorb the spillover, as was the case in the Southern Hilltop and the West End. I highly doubt they'll be staying in the East End in general, as even in the remaining rough neighborhoods I don't think they'll be room to house them (unless they go crazy with that new Larimer development). Most likely they'll move to an already declining part of the Southern Hilltop, West End, or outer North Side.
2. How the Penguins redevelop the Civic Arena site obviously could be key. At this point there is essentially nothing wrong with most of Crawford Roberts, it's just forgotten due to the moat of parking lots cordoning it off from downtown. A decent, mixed-use infill project could tie it in and have the Lower Hill become a desirable place to live. On the other hand, if they stick a USX-style office park there, it will pretty much stagnate as is.
3. Another issue is if/when Uptown turns. I think Uptown's transformation will be key, as it will ultimately turn around rough but intact areas like De Raud and Moutine Streets, as well as working its way back up into the Lower Hill via Dinwiddie.
Outside of this, there is the bleed-over of Oakland to consider. My understanding is West Oakland has been stagnant for many years, although this is beginning to change a bit with the recent Oakland Portal project. If West Oakland ceases to be sketchy, it probably will dramatically increase the desirability of the Oak Hill apartments as well. Similarly, I could eventually see desirability flipping those two blocks of houses behind the VA Hospital, and eventually the Centre Avenue corridor, as they're relatively desirable places to be if you want quick access to Oakland.
Sugar Top is it's own thing. Once you get off of Herron, it's pretty astounding how much more intact that it is compared to the Hill District at large. Something like 85% of buildings are standing, often in good condition. The Schenley Heights area is already desirable, as are the backwoods streets closer to Polish Hill. I can only think the main reason why it's not become desirable is residual racism - both people never exploring the area because it's a black neighborhood, as well as not considering it as an option because it's a black neighborhood. It does lack a business district, so it will never be hip, but I could see it turning into a more racially mixed Greenfield (with nicer housing stock) eventually.
Edit: I should say I don't think the "core" of the Hill (between Herron and Kilpatrick, and north of Centre) is going to change any time soon. Infill is prretty much only being built now in the Lower Hill, and even if it becomes safe, I expect demolitions here to continue. It will be largely urban prairie minus the weird enclaves of later development like Francis Court within two decades.
I love your assessment of Herron Hill aka Sugartop--you're spot on. I was amazed myself when I explored it for the first time a few years ago when I was still in college. I made an arbitrary goal to reach the water tower that looms over Oakland on a bike ride. I'm not sure what I was expecting. I've been hearing bad stuff about the Hill since I was a kid. So you can imagine my surprise and awe when I discovered a seemingly peaceful reasonably-maintained neighborhood filled with victorian row houses and, in some cases, miniature mansions. Oh yeah, and let's not forget the view up there by the water tower in Herron Hill park... wow. That little trip struck such a chord with me.
So yeah, I totally agree with your "isolation" theory about why it was able to remain fairly stable compared to the rest of the Hill. Certainly the close proximity to Oakland and the extrodinarily high land values of Schenley Farms didn't hurt either.
Am I the only one NOT intimidated by the Hill District?
While I never spent much time there, many of my classmates did when we did our public health nursing clinicals. (I was in Braddock.) They seemed safe. Since my days at Pitt, I've been a public health nurse and gone into many similar neighborhoods. I'm not afraid of much.
While I never spent much time there, many of my classmates did when we did our public health nursing clinicals. (I was in Braddock.) They seemed safe. Since my days at Pitt, I've been a public health nurse and gone into many similar neighborhoods. I'm not afraid of much.
let's not forget the view up there by the water tower in Herron Hill park... wow. That little trip struck such a chord with me.
Anyone happen to have photos?
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