Why does 376 West suck so much? (York, Liberty: neighborhood, live in, car)

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by BarqCider

because this are has a worse planned/designed highway system that makes nova/md/dc DOT go "ha! at least we aren't penndot!"

and im pretty sure pennDOT assume more folks will leave here than come here.

Try planning roads around hills and rivers, not so much in DC.

[BarqCider]

Originally Posted by Copanut

Try planning roads around hills and rivers, not so much in DC.

yeah I lived in CA and they do it better.

[speagles84]

Originally Posted by BarqCider

because this are has a worse planned/designed highway system that makes nova/md/dc DOT go "ha! at least we aren't penndot!"

and im pretty sure pennDOT assume more folks will leave here than come here.

Originally Posted by Copanut

Try planning roads around hills and rivers, not so much in DC.

Yes, PennDOT is betting on everyone leaving the Pittsburgh area in the next 5 years. . You JUST moved here.

Copanut is right. And no California's hills aren't like the hills around here. Ours are steeper, bigger, and there are alot more of them. Our entire region is a dissected plateau. CA sits near a convergent boundary with foothills that are part of the bigger mountains around them.

[armourereric]

People need to remember that both parkways were not only never intended to be interstates, but were built to the 1945 design standards of the time. Even though they were not built until 1952-54, they were completely designed by 1945, nobody could have forseen the explosion in suburbia.

I had a laugh while reading old news articles via google: In 1950, the city of Pittsburgh threatnd to sue the state because they were going forward with the Parkway East as their top priority, whereas the city was demanding that they extend Ohio River Blvd to the Manchester Bridge first.

[pghdude28]

The geography excuse, while some truth, is getting old. It is NOT the only reason why the roads suck here.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by pghdude28

The geography excuse, while some truth, is getting old. It is NOT the only reason why the roads suck here.

Geography explains why the roads are narrow, since they sit in narrow valleys and often have to be funneled through tunnels. Building the Ft Pitt Tunnel with 4 lanes in each direction would have been a lot more outrageously expensive

[gortonator]

Originally Posted by pghdude28

The geography excuse, while some truth, is getting old. It is NOT the only reason why the roads suck here.

I know, those hills are stubborn buggers that just won't move when you want them to. A bit like someone else I can think of .....

[Sealtite]

Originally Posted by BarqCider

yeah I lived in CA and they do it better.

Wanna know what's really, really sad BarqCider? Nobody got it. I swear, people are so geographically challenged around here. It really does feel like a landlocked island sometimes. I once had a yinzer get so angry at me over geography that I was almost certain it was gonna end in a fist fight. He was absolutely convinced that San Diego was a "port tahn" (which I guess it technically is), and thus the entire region was flat as a pancake. I tried to explain to him that I lived there and could see snow-capped mountains in the distance from Pacific Beach, and that absolutely infuriated him. It was hilarious.

[BarqCider]

Originally Posted by youngabe

I don't mean to start this constant debate, but I'm always curious where people like you drive on a regular basis. Your options of getting to the airport are 376 or 60. 60, especially coming inbound, now tends to crawl from 79 to the Thornburg Bridge. Parkway East nightly is around the Boulevard of the Allies or worse. In the AM, you're looking at Penn Hills or Churchill for a delay. That's 30+ minutes just to get through the congestion. I don't know about you, but if I'm stuck in congestion for 30+ minutes in any city, that's qualifies as "bad traffic." It's almost like some folks on here constantly have this, "If you think that's bad, try {insert city.} Sure, but a lot of that is like comparing apples to watermelons. The DC metro has HOW much more population? Yes, the traffic SHOULD be worse there.

Problem is in pgh you have options to get around traffic. Dc area every alt route, street has traffic on top of the regular spots.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by BarqCider

because this are has a worse planned/designed highway system that makes nova/md/dc DOT go "ha! at least we aren't penndot!".

Much of the highway system in the Pittsburgh area was planned before the advent of the Interstate Highway System, meaning that there were no "Interstate standards" to build the highways to. It's not a matter of incompetence; it's simply PennDOT being stuck with certain segments of Interstate in the Commonwealth that were grandfathered into the Interstate Highway System, and are extremely expensive to upgrade as a result.

Originally Posted by BarqCider

yeah I lived in CA and they do it better.

Yeah, because a) California's highways were built after the Interstate Highway System was signed into law, and thus had federal standards to be built to, and b) there's plenty of flat land in California to go with the mountains. L.A. Basin? Flat. San Fernando Valley? Flat. San Joaquin Valley? Flat. Inland Empire? Mostly flat. Mojave Desert? It has some mountain ranges surrounded by large expanses of relative flatness.

Truth is, there are very few miles of Interstate highway built through mountainous areas in California, and those that are aren't hemmed in by tunnels or urban development either. There's elbow room in the mountains too, with the exception of the west slope of the Sierra Nevada, which is why U.S. 50 hasn't been widened to four lanes past Placerville, and I-80 heading down the west slope into Sacramento is just as narrow as the Parkways East and West.

On the other hand, the elevation in western and central Pennsylvania is almost constantly changing over short distances, which makes it much harder and more expensive to build and maintain a highway system. There are no large expanses of relative flatness in between mountains in Pennsylvania like there are in California, except south and east of Blue Mountain.

Originally Posted by armourereric

People need to remember that both parkways were not only never intended to be interstates, but were built to the 1945 design standards of the time. Even though they were not built until 1952-54, they were completely designed by 1945, nobody could have forseen the explosion in suburbia.

I had a laugh while reading old news articles via google: In 1950, the city of Pittsburgh threatnd to sue the state because they were going forward with the Parkway East as their top priority, whereas the city was demanding that they extend Ohio River Blvd to the Manchester Bridge first.

Yeah, the Interstate Highway System was signed into law in 1956, which means that Pennsylvania was already building many highways long before "Interstate standards" even existed. Unfortunately, overhauling some of them is bound to be very expensive. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to be a pioneer.