Bill Peduto Has Big Plans For Transportation/Funding (Pittsburgh, McKeesport: sales, lease)

[gg]

Originally Posted by zman63

When corbett was cutting education money even the top tier school districts like North Allegheny were struggling with budgets and keeping its buildings open.

My district had no problems at all. We aren't living off the state's tax money here and the cuts had about no effect. Some of the North Hills communities are living totally in debt. Just compare income levels. They live in a fake world in the North Allegheny area. Debt and no furniture in their homes. Giant SUV's that they make payments on. It is too funny.

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Originally Posted by Katiana

Could you (or someone) bring me up to speed on consolidation? You, zman63, seem to have an obsession with it, yet I have seen nothing else here on CD that consolidation is being taken seriously.

He provided his findings from 1917. Yep, it is really in the works all right.

[gg]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Sometimes I think that you're just stirring the pot.

Duh, do ya think?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

i dont have numbers in front of me, but there are safety regulations for bikeway widths. yes, the busway may just be too narrow as it exists now for bicycle use.

i didnt think of red light cameras in that respect ('relying on people breaking the law...'). thats a good point.

i applaud Peduto for thinking big and looking ahead. i would be hesitant to support any light rail to the North Hills, though, because of the reason mentioned here - the financial burden not shared by most. also, there are other transportation needs that have existed LONG before the north hills population sprawl/boom.

as far as taxation - yes, indeed, the suburban people from townships (where PennDOT is responsible for the brunt of road maintenance in the commercial districts that keep those places alive) are getting a free ride. please dont tell me that carton of nachos and that artery clogging cheese at the penguin game is your financial contribution. however, one can argue that it is they that bring talent and experience to the corporations and businesses located here in Pittsburgh and other places in Allegheny County.

What are the boundaries of the PAT? They don't stop at the city lines? Why look at this! PAT covers the entire county, and a little bit in other counties, e.g. a Park and Ride in Ambridge, Beaver County. One could presume that the people in the county are paying taxes for PAT.

PennDOT is a state agency, supported by state taxes. The city isn't paying for PennDOT's operations.
System Map - Port Authority of Allegheny County - System Overview

Originally Posted by szug-bot

you missed my point. mcknight road is the lifeblood of many communities. its maintenance is probably 80% funded by penn dot (dont quote me on the exact percentage). that is where people shop, get around, etc. and that is the only real commercial strip for many communities.

now pittsburgh also receives state money, but it doesnt for ALL its heavily travelled roads. so a city dweller is paying the SAME state taxes as you, but you depend on state maintained roads just to get out of your house basically.

Maybe we should quote you for the exact percentage of state taxes going to McKnight Rd. It seems to be the crux of your argument, so maybe you should have the information.

[Copanut]

Ya know what, let's do this. Make the entire State of Pennsylvania a City. We could save so much money and the Democrats would love it!!!

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Originally Posted by Copanut

Ya know what, let's do this. Make the entire State of Pennsylvania a City. We could save so much money and the Democrats would love it!!!

This Democrat would fight that forever. Not sure why people think democrats would want it? I doubt it. There is a ton of common ground between both parties, but the media doesn't want anyone to know about them.

[eschaton]

While I don't agree with everything that Zman63 said, but the idea that a city-county merger would trigger an exodus to the surrounding counties is ridiculous. Louisville underwent a city-county merger in 2003, and there was no hightailing to the exurbs there. Macon, Georgia is in the process of implementing a city-county merger, and there's no sign of anything awful there either.

That's not to say that for various reasons city-county mergers are much politically harder in the U.S. outside of the South/West. But the resulting city takes on the political composition of the county, not the old city. Most suburbanites would remain quite comfortable with it.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by eschaton

While I don't agree with everything that Zman63 said, but the idea that a city-county merger would trigger an exodus to the surrounding counties is ridiculous. Louisville underwent a city-county merger in 2003, and there was no hightailing to the exurbs there. Macon, Georgia is in the process of implementing a city-county merger, and there's no sign of anything awful there either.

That's not to say that for various reasons city-county mergers are much politically harder in the U.S. outside of the South/West. But the resulting city takes on the political composition of the county, not the old city. Most suburbanites would remain quite comfortable with it.

I agree with most of your post, but regarding the bold, what cities in the west are doing city/county mergers? Please list.

1.

Plus, I have already shown evidence that school districts don't necessarily consolidate following these mergers.

[zman63]

Originally Posted by eschaton

While I don't agree with everything that Zman63 said, but the idea that a city-county merger would trigger an exodus to the surrounding counties is ridiculous. Louisville underwent a city-county merger in 2003, and there was no hightailing to the exurbs there. Macon, Georgia is in the process of implementing a city-county merger, and there's no sign of anything awful there either.

That's not to say that for various reasons city-county mergers are much politically harder in the U.S. outside of the South/West. But the resulting city takes on the political composition of the county, not the old city. Most suburbanites would remain quite comfortable with it.

Thank you. Finally somebody with some sense. The rand study completed in 2008 said nearly the same thing as the study in 1917 in regards to consolidation. They have tried three times over the past 100 years to consolidate municipalities only to have it thrown out on technicalities by the commonwealth itself.

There have already been some forced mergers in allegheny county. Allegheny City (entire north side) was forced into the city of pittsburgh in 1907. In 1981 a federal judge forced the consolidation of the churchill, edgewood, swissvale and braddock school districts to form Woodland Hills. While most people say well that was a failure because the school district has gone down hill. IMO it has gone downhill because there aren't the jobs or opportunity for residents out that way. Right now there is very little hope out there. The tax base that was there is gone. The eastern allegheny county suburbs had all their eggs in the westinghouse basket. Once Westinghouse began downsizing by the thousands in the late 80s and 90s and finally leaving for cranberry in 2009, a bomb was dropped. It has also had a negative impact on Penn Hills and monroeville (Gateway School district). Those districts always were not merged with anybody and always on their own. Aside from the schools the office and retail space has suffered mightily with the loss of westinghouse.

If you want to see a successful merging of school districts in western pa look no further than center and monaca, which merged around 5 years ago to create Central Valley School District. There wasn't a mass exodus of people in Center Township because they were taking on educating the lower class/ poor of Monaca.

I think it is all excuses because people want to resist change.

[zman63]

Pittsburgh suburbs are suffering poverty at high rates.

Pittsburgh suburbs suffering poverty at high rate - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette