kickstarter for kevin sousa's new restaurant in braddock (Penn: transplants, to live in)

[gortonator]

Originally Posted by jay5835

Except that in the situation you experienced last night, SCR would have been the one grinding your gears. He would feel justifed in doing so because he thinks of you and Mrs. Gortonator as two of those horrible baby boomers who ruined everything, causing the Great Economic Crisis of 2008, the Great East End Housing Crisis, and using every weapon in your arsenal to bring down the country in any way you could, making his life an utter hell on earth.

Everyone's allowed the odd rant. Most of SCR's posts are quite reasonable, and I'd hope his 'blame the baby boomers' attitude was somewhat calmed by the recent thread where many of us aptly demonstrated how silly that was. I'm sure I blamed the 'whatever generation' for something or other when I was in my 20's too. What is two generations before baby boomers called anyway?

And hey, we are borderline baby boomer/Gen X, and undoubtedly the latter in attitude. Does that make us cool? Or just old ...

[Kippy]

Is anyone really confused why one might use Kickstarter to raise funds vs. a traditional business loan?

1. As someone else pointed out, there is no real accountability. If the project fails, no backers will be getting their free dinner, nor will they be getting their money back.

2. The money is interest free.

3. The restaurant gets $40 in return for a free meal. As one might imagine, the real cost of the meal is not $40, so the restaurant isn't "paying off" the full amount of the loan. As someone else mentioned, the bank won't take free meals as a form of loan payment.

I have no problem with Kickstarter, and I have funded projects in the past, all of which made it to fruition.

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Apparently he's not smug or arrogant, so I do apologize. In my defense, though, it was certainly a poor choice of words for the casual observer.

It really wasn't a poor choice of words if you go and read various internet commentaries on this project. There are plenty of comments out there of the "omg Braddock is the worst place on earth, with a criminal on every corner and full of poor people who deserve their situation, and no one is going to want to go there, this is going to fail so hard" type, and my paraphrase is hardly exaggerated. Those are the people Sousa is addressing. Not every opinion is equally valid, and it is those people who are condescending and arrogant, and worse.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by trlstreet

Anyone who is willing to take a risk and improve a place like Braddock is OK in my book. He could have easily opened a restaurant in a more conventional location. And I think using kickstarter is a good idea since bank financing in Braddock may be a little difficult.

How is using a kickstarter to expand your line of restaurants "taking a risk"? It's not like he's quitting his day job to start this restaurant, and if it fails, well it's not like they'll be defaulting on a loan or anything either.

Originally Posted by Kippy

Is anyone really confused why one might use Kickstarter to raise funds vs. a traditional business loan?

1. As someone else pointed out, there is no real accountability. If the project fails, no backers will be getting their free dinner, nor will they be getting their money back.

2. The money is interest free.

3. The restaurant gets $40 in return for a free meal. As one might imagine, the real cost of the meal is not $40, so the restaurant isn't "paying off" the full amount of the loan. As someone else mentioned, the bank won't take free meals as a form of loan payment.

I have no problem with Kickstarter, and I have funded projects in the past, all of which made it to fruition.

I'm not a fan of him using the kickstarter approach really. I feel like his track record is such that he could get private backing, either from independent investors who would take partial ownership or from a bank. A similar thing happened in the movie industry: Kevin Smith says no to Kickstarter

"I don't know, I feel like I should leave that for the cats that really need it at this point," Smith said about the whole Kickstarter game.

"I love the idea and I want to do it so desperately, but I think I've missed the window based on the fact that I do have access to materials, I do have access to money," he added.

Personally the kickstarter route just seems strange to me...if I'm "investing" even $250 of the $250,000 it takes to start up a business then I want a 1/1000th share of ownership.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I didn't imply what you quoted sounded patronizing, pompous, or arrogant. I indicated the quote I JUST DICUSSED sounded patronizing, pompous, and arrogant. When someone says something like "those who get it, get it; those who don't, don't" it typically conveys a tone of ideological superiority, and that turns me off.

Have you ever seen the "Smug" episode of South Park where Prius drivers only buy hybrids so they can pat themselves on the back for it and drive around giving each other thumbs up and saying "good for you" and "we're a little bit ahead of the curve"? That's the attitude that quote projects onto my mind, and that's not one I want to see spreading anymore in the East End than it already has.


Here's a commentary from the writers of this popular episode poking similar holes through the smugness of people who think they need to be congratulated for "doing their part to be ahead of the curve":


Smug Alert! | Commentary (South Park) - YouTube


Good for you! - South Park - YouTube

I already see stuff like this happening daily in the East End, and I do NOT want it to spread. Just yesterday on Bellefonte Street a group of women passed me as I was feeding a parking meter, and one of them waited until they were near me to proclaim loudly "we have how many Ph.D.'s, yet we can't figure out how to..." (I inwardly rolled my eyes). A quote like someone saying "those who get it, get it; those who don't, don't" (with their eyes half-closed and their noses in the air) similarly brings up this connotation of self-righteousness in my mind. Why can't people just do something good for the community or for the environment without wanting people to blow smoke up their derrieres for it? I don't want people to be walking down Walnut Street or Murray Avenue saying "we're a little ahead of the curve here in Pittsburgh..." or "GOOD FOR YOU!"

SCR calling older, less-educated, blue collar PGH natives "urban rednecks" behind the safety of a computer screen is acceptable.

A woman who makes fun of you within earshot (for what exactly? Driving an "ecologically unsound" car?) and who for all you know could be from some suburb IS AN ELITIST PIG.

Just so I'm understanding you correctly?

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

It really wasn't a poor choice of words if you go and read various internet commentaries on this project. There are plenty of comments out there of the "omg Braddock is the worst place on earth, with a criminal on every corner and full of poor people who deserve their situation, and no one is going to want to go there, this is going to fail so hard" type, and my paraphrase is hardly exaggerated. Those are the people Sousa is addressing. Not every opinion is equally valid, and it is those people who are condescending and arrogant, and worse.

Bring the points, people. Rep away.

[Kippy]

Originally Posted by ferraris

I'm not a fan of him using the kickstarter approach really. I feel like his track record is such that he could get private backing, either from independent investors who would take partial ownership or from a bank.

I understand what you are saying, and I have only funded projects that would never be without crowd sourcing. I agree that he could find private investors with a stake in the restaurant or a business loan from a bank. However, why would he turn away free money with no liability or risk involved?

By raising money via Kickstarter, he automatically improves his bottom line. He also avoids the risk of default which comes with a loan from a financial institution. So, while it may be cheesy to raise money via Kickstarter, it is actually a sound business decision.

[groar]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I already see stuff like this happening daily in the East End, and I do NOT want it to spread. Just yesterday on Bellefonte Street a group of women passed me as I was feeding a parking meter, and one of them waited until they were near me to proclaim loudly "we have how many Ph.D.'s, yet we can't figure out how to..." (I inwardly rolled my eyes).

she waited til they got close to you to say this? and you know this how? maybe they were just having a conversation as they were walking past you and you heard a snippet of it. the world does not revolve around you and not everything you overhear is said for your benefit. i'm not even sure what you think her point would have been in making sure you heard that. how would she know that you don't have a phD?

likewise, you are reading a HUGE value judgment into sousa's statement that i don't think is really there. and the fact that you can ignore all the other stuff he's said about making sure the restaurant is affordable to braddock residents, providing training for free, etc and just focus in on that one sentence making him evil and not worthy of your support is incredibly shallow. like seriously, that one sentence negates everything else about what he's doing, which you seem to otherwise like?

[greg42]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Personally the kickstarter route just seems strange to me...if I'm "investing" even $250 of the $250,000 it takes to start up a business then I want a 1/1000th share of ownership.

Kickstarter is mostly IMO a fancied up way of far advance sales rather than investing. It's a great idea I think if you look at it that way, pretty much win-win as long as the purchaser ("backer") has a few bucks and some patience. If I remember correctly, pre-selling (of meal tickets to be used at a future date) was something Sousa did before opening Salt of the Earth as well. Sure most Kickstarters have a "chip in a few bucks and get nothing in return except gratitude" level, but when I look at most of them you are reserving a product or service, maybe at a higher than usual margin, but you're still getting something in return.

[sskink]

Originally Posted by ferraris

I'm not a fan of him using the kickstarter approach really. I feel like his track record is such that he could get private backing, either from independent investors who would take partial ownership or from a bank.

I suggest you try talking to a bank about starting a business in Braddock that's not manufacturing or processing. In my experience banks have no interest in lending to new business in the foodservice industry, even to someone who's developed and successfully sold a foodservice business.