The Burgh is the Most Affordable City (Pittsburgh, Penn Hills: apartments, for rent)

[ny789987]

And just be glad you don't live in the most unaffordable city:

S.F. rents up more than 3 times higher than national average - On The Block

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

Not to nitpick, but since you're dividing by zero, the percent increase would actually be "infinite."

Exactly! Going from one employee to two would be a 100% increase. That's why people sometimes use percentages to make a gain look big when it's really not.

[szug-bot]

lim x

x--> infinity

for x>= 1

in any case.....

has anyone gone through the drive-through at the east liberty mcdonalds and given the 'code'. haha.

"no, not opiates - i really did mean i wanted french fries when i asked for the 'piping hot potatos'!"

[The King of Um]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Even this isn't really a given. For the short term I agree, but these are places where sub-$50K homes are common. If say there are 20 years of sustained growth in Pittsburgh (and yes, that's a big "if") I could hypothetically see $150K being the minimum needed for a livable home anywhere in Pittsburgh. Maybe more depending on inflation.



Very true. $150K is probably considered affordable to most people today, let alone in the future.

I have to disagree with your assessment. We've had sustained economic growth in Pittsburgh over the last 10 years, yet according to Zillow, the average price of a home in Marshall-Shadeland has only gone from $46K in January of 2004 to $55K in December of 2013--that's not quite a 20% appreciation. Elliott tells the same tale. The average home price there has increased from $45K in January of 2004 to $56K in December of 2013. That's a 24% appreciation in value in a decade. Even if economic growth is more robust in Pittsburgh over the next 20 years than it has been over the last 10, which I expect it will be, I still strongly doubt homes in such places as Marshall-Shadeland and Elliott--or the less appealing neighborhoods like Knoxville, Allentown, Arlington, Mt. Oliver, Homewood, Larimer, East Hills, etc.--will be going for $150K or more. That doesn't seem realistic. Given sustained robust economic growth, I can see prices appreciating to those levels, or even exceeding those levels, in Spring Hill, Fineview, Troy Hill, East Deutschtown and neighborhoods like those, but not in any of the places I mentioned above.

And I disagree; $150K is not affordable to a lot of people, especially when we consider those who are from the small towns and smaller cities of PA or neighboring states like OH and WV. Also, if you're trying to avoid a large mortgage, if you're planning on making a sizable down payment (20% or more), or if you want to purchase outright, then $150K isn't inexpensive. Of course, those from the coasts, from places like NYC or LA, think $150K is a hell of a bargain. High income earners would also think of $150K as being cheap.

[PreservationPioneer]

I have a bachelor's degree and work full-time in my field for a major hospital, and I couldn't afford a $150k house.

[zman63]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

I have a bachelor's degree and work full-time in my field for a major hospital, and I couldn't afford a $150k house.

That is because the jobs around here pay much lower than the national average. I am not sure what you do, but I am willing to bet if you moved to another affordable city that is growing you would get a spike in pay, with less taxes and have the ability to afford a 150k house.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by zman63

That is because the jobs around here pay much lower than the national average. I am not sure what you do, but I am willing to bet if you moved to another affordable city that is growing you would get a spike in pay, with less taxes and have the ability to afford a 150k house.

Nope. Low-end Social Services workers don't get paid well anywhere. If I got a Master's, I could make $2 more an hour, though.

I have nothing to complain about, though. I'm living like a king on 30k a year, in a house that would probably be at least twice what I paid for it in any city but McKeesport. Which proves that the area truly is affordable. Not that there aren't sub-50k palaces in some other places, but we also have jobs.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Nope. Low-end Social Services workers don't get paid well anywhere. If I got a Master's, I could make $2 more an hour, though.

I have nothing to complain about, though. I'm living like a king on 30k a year, in a house that would probably be at least twice what I paid for it in any city but McKeesport. Which proves that the area truly is affordable. Not that there aren't sub-50k palaces in some other places, but we also have jobs.

PP

You need to work for the VA someday

https://www.usajobs.gov/JobSearch/Se...ligibility=all

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by KingOfUm

I have to disagree with your assessment. We've had sustained economic growth in Pittsburgh over the last 10 years, yet according to Zillow, the average price of a home in Marshall-Shadeland has only gone from $46K in January of 2004 to $55K in December of 2013--that's not quite a 20% appreciation. Elliott tells the same tale. The average home price there has increased from $45K in January of 2004 to $56K in December of 2013. That's a 24% appreciation in value in a decade. Even if economic growth is more robust in Pittsburgh over the next 20 years than it has been over the last 10, which I expect it will be, I still strongly doubt homes in such places as Marshall-Shadeland and Elliott--or the less appealing neighborhoods like Knoxville, Allentown, Arlington, Mt. Oliver, Homewood, Larimer, East Hills, etc.--will be going for $150K or more. That doesn't seem realistic. Given sustained robust economic growth, I can see prices appreciating to those levels, or even exceeding those levels, in Spring Hill, Fineview, Troy Hill, East Deutschtown and neighborhoods like those, but not in any of the places I mentioned above.

And I disagree; $150K is not affordable to a lot of people, especially when we consider those who are from the small towns and smaller cities of PA or neighboring states like OH and WV. Also, if you're trying to avoid a large mortgage, if you're planning on making a sizable down payment (20% or more), or if you want to purchase outright, then $150K isn't inexpensive. Of course, those from the coasts, from places like NYC or LA, think $150K is a hell of a bargain. High income earners would also think of $150K as being cheap.

True about the past 10 years being slight growth years for Pittsburgh. I had meant if there is more sustained robust growth as you suggested. I found an article on realtor.com saying that the median existing home sales price in the US was $197,100 in 2013. I really don't think it's too outlandish for Pittsburgh to catch up to that and then keep pace with increases in the median over the next 20 years. If the median home price increases to $250K or $300K over the next 20 years I could envision even Marshall-Shadeland and Elliot being $150K neighborhoods.

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

I have a bachelor's degree and work full-time in my field for a major hospital, and I couldn't afford a $150k house.

Yeah you're preaching to the choir (I didn't even crack $50K on my house). It really depends how you define "afford." I remember the bank said that I could "afford" up to $170K, but I knew that would be a huge burden on myself. Also remember that many (most?) homebuyers have dual income. A mortgage on a $150K home would be what? $1,100 a month or so? Plenty of people are paying that for rent right now, especially families; that is what I was basing my comment off of.

[The King of Um]

Originally Posted by ferraris

True about the past 10 years being slight growth years for Pittsburgh. I had meant if there is more sustained robust growth as you suggested. I found an article on realtor.com saying that the median existing home sales price in the US was $197,100 in 2013. I really don't think it's too outlandish for Pittsburgh to catch up to that and then keep pace with increases in the median over the next 20 years. If the median home price increases to $250K or $300K over the next 20 years I could envision even Marshall-Shadeland and Elliot being $150K neighborhoods.



Yeah you're preaching to the choir (I didn't even crack $50K on my house). It really depends how you define "afford." I remember the bank said that I could "afford" up to $170K, but I knew that would be a huge burden on myself. Also remember that many (most?) homebuyers have dual income. A mortgage on a $150K home would be what? $1,100 a month or so? Plenty of people are paying that for rent right now, especially families; that is what I was basing my comment off of.

Pittsburgh's median home sales price will eventually catch up to the U.S. median, but I don't think that will happen for a long time, which is fortunate because it would be best if the city remained at least somewhat affordable. Regarding Marshall-Shadeland, Perry South, Elliott, and places like that, I don't doubt that there will be appreciation over the years, but I don't see it being as significant as you think. For prices to climb that high in those neighborhoods, prices in the more desirable city neighborhoods will have to be excessively high. In order for demand to be created for homes in Marshall-Shadeland, etc., people would have had to be priced out of Brighton Heights, Fineview, Deutschtown, Spring Hill, Troy Hill, and urban suburbs such as Millvale. That's possible but not likely; and it's even more unlikely that there will be so much demand for homes in Marshall-Shadeland, Perry South, or Elliott that the cheapest livable homes will be going for $150K+.

We haven't considered this, but it's an important factor: the migration of the poor from the gentrifying lower North Side. As the lower North Side continues to gentrify, the area's poor will be displaced, and I'm of the opinion that many of them will go to Marshall-Shadeland and Perry South. Moreover, as some of you have said in past threads, public housing projects will likely close in the next decade; these people have to live somewhere, and again, I think they'll probably go to Marshall-Shadeland and Perry South.

These are the reasons why I just can't see homes in Marshall-Shadeland, Perry South, Elliott, etc. selling for $150K or more, even in the most optimistic of circumstances for Pittsburgh.