Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Pittsburgh
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-25-2014, 10:55 AM
 
Location: O'Hara Twp.
4,359 posts, read 7,487,518 times
Reputation: 1611

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Morningside actually has the highest proportion of white children of any neighborhood in the Upper East End. Admittedly this might be in part because it's such an unpopular neighborhood for students or early 20s professionals to live in. But clearly minus the local schools issues a lot of locals still think it's quite family friendly.



True enough, at least on this forum. In general I think those places tend to be overhyped more though, insofar as they don't live up to the reputation of Grandview. Mediocre business districts, houses generally in not very good condition, etc.


I did google Oakwood and I just don't get the Highland Park comparison.

Friends that just moved from Morningside and said the kids on their block, of which there were a lot of them, all went to different schools. I think the reason why this forum doesn't love Morningside is that a lot of the posters want a regular old public school for their kids, not a magnet or parochial school, like Colfax or Minedeo. My guess is that a magnet is great only if you don't have a viable regular public school. ECS may be the exception. Because I bet some people will pick it over Colfax or Minedeo.

Another point, ever since BrianTh left Regent Square is barely mentioned.

Park Place is a great neighborhood but it is so small that it is tough to promote it. Same goes for the city part of Regent Square.

I do think this forum has shifted away from more affluent transplants to younger home buyers seeking a more modest house. So, the focus is on houses that are priced less than 125,000.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-25-2014, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,361 posts, read 16,890,821 times
Reputation: 12390
Quote:
Originally Posted by robrobrob View Post
I did google Oakwood and I just don't get the Highland Park comparison.
I was thinking about streets like this. Admittedly, there are some areas more like early suburban Squirrel Hill, or just generic suburbia.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2014, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
1,491 posts, read 1,448,416 times
Reputation: 1067
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I know that land speculators have been holding onto large areas near Grandview (and holding back development) but it must be remembered that as the crow flies, Mount Washington is closer to Downtown than any surviving residential neighborhood. The Monongahela incline goes directly to the T as well, making it easy to get downtown. There's really no reason why it shouldn't be one of the most desirable areas in the city.



I'd dispute the core East End thing, given it directly abuts Highland Park and East Liberty. Due to topography it does have few links with other neighborhoods except at its south end however. Technically you can get into the neighborhood from Greenwood Avenue and Baker Street, but both are pretty steep/isolated streets, and unlikely to be chanced upon by most people.

Regardless, I'm not sure it's unappreciated in general, just probably the single most forgotten majority white neighborhood in the East End. Even Stanton Heights is better known, as it's postwar architecture stands out for the East End.

besides the one grandview project, what ares you talking about? even that one is not really being artificially held back, the developer has not secured funding for the project. the only other I can think of is the lot next to st mary of the mount, and they began clearing the site again last fall, looks as if ground breaking will be this spring.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2014, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,361 posts, read 16,890,821 times
Reputation: 12390
Quote:
Originally Posted by jea6321 View Post
besides the one grandview project, what ares you talking about? even that one is not really being artificially held back, the developer has not secured funding for the project. the only other I can think of is the lot next to st mary of the mount, and they began clearing the site again last fall, looks as if ground breaking will be this spring.
Most of these two blocks are owned by one group of speculators. They actually bought another two of the houses left and asked the city for a permit to knock them down.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2014, 12:35 PM
 
43 posts, read 97,716 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by robrobrob View Post
I did google Oakwood and I just don't get the Highland Park comparison.

Friends that just moved from Morningside and said the kids on their block, of which there were a lot of them, all went to different schools. I think the reason why this forum doesn't love Morningside is that a lot of the posters want a regular old public school for their kids, not a magnet or parochial school, like Colfax or Minedeo. My guess is that a magnet is great only if you don't have a viable regular public school. ECS may be the exception. Because I bet some people will pick it over Colfax or Minedeo.

Another point, ever since BrianTh left Regent Square is barely mentioned.

Park Place is a great neighborhood but it is so small that it is tough to promote it. Same goes for the city part of Regent Square.

I do think this forum has shifted away from more affluent transplants to younger home buyers seeking a more modest house. So, the focus is on houses that are priced less than 125,000.
That's an astute observation. The neighborhood is great for children because it's walkable and there are lots and lots of young families so socialization for kids and the parents is easy. However, the school situation is the #1 reason why Morningside might get looked over. Very few parents send their kids to the elementary school (Sunnyside in Stanton Heights). Those that do are happy with it overall, but have legitimate serious concerns about what happens come high school. The desirable magnet programs are nearly maxed out and the one charter school that people perceive as good (ECS) is harder to get into than the Ivy Leagues. The parochial schools have traditionally acted as the default public schools for Morningside and while that has waned some with the mostly non-Catholic newcomers, it is still filling the gap for parents who aren't getting children into either magnet programs or ECS.

The success of this city is going to be sustained by families and the city is not going to be keeping families in affordable neighborhoods like Morningside without doing something about the schools.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2014, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,361 posts, read 16,890,821 times
Reputation: 12390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningsider View Post
That's an astute observation. The neighborhood is great for children because it's walkable and there are lots and lots of young families so socialization for kids and the parents is easy. However, the school situation is the #1 reason why Morningside might get looked over. Very few parents send their kids to the elementary school (Sunnyside in Stanton Heights). Those that do are happy with it overall, but have legitimate serious concerns about what happens come high school. The desirable magnet programs are nearly maxed out and the one charter school that people perceive as good (ECS) is harder to get into than the Ivy Leagues. The parochial schools have traditionally acted as the default public schools for Morningside and while that has waned some with the mostly non-Catholic newcomers, it is still filling the gap for parents who aren't getting children into either magnet programs or ECS.

The success of this city is going to be sustained by families and the city is not going to be keeping families in affordable neighborhoods like Morningside without doing something about the schools.
It's not as if Sunnyside is a "bad feeder pattern" though. Last I checked it contained Monringside, Stanton Heights, Upper Lawrenceville, and the few blocks of Highland Park west of Negley. It has heavily (70%+) black enrollment though, since there are a lot of black families in southern Stanton Heights and parts of Upper Lawrenceville. Still, if all of the parents choosing other options enrolled their kids there, you'd end up with a 50/50 split or better (e.g., similar to the East End magnets).

The bottom line is without outright racial gerrymandering of the schools (like taking southern Stanton Heights out of the feeder) you're going to get a large black population in any school in the Upper East End. This would probably be blocked by the Department of Justice as racial segregation (rightfully so, IMHO), and it would be horrible press regardless. And it would probably not matter even, because according to No Child Left Behind, kids in failing neighborhood schools have to be allowed to "bid into" empty slots at better schools in their district, meaning if enrollment was too low kids would be coming in from Garfield and Homewood anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2014, 02:41 PM
 
1,901 posts, read 4,357,562 times
Reputation: 1018
Here's a quick one… Bon Air
Bon Air is near Knoxville, Beltzhoover and Northern Carrick, but has no signs of spill over or decline. It doesnt really have blight or notable white poverty like Arlington, Mt. Oliver Boro, or Allentown. Moreover, its a fine neighborhood in the midst of a very gritty part of town.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2014, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Crafton, PA
1,173 posts, read 2,177,859 times
Reputation: 623
Oakwood is interesting because you have a good mix of homes from 1900-1920, mid-century homes, and newer homes. To me it seems a little like a slightly more suburbanized version of Greenfield, with smaller hills.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2014, 03:02 PM
 
1,183 posts, read 2,136,535 times
Reputation: 1584
I know that people suggest / discuss Brookline here sometimes, but I still think it's underrated relative to the East End. Brookline Boulevard is essentially Liberty Ave on the other side of the tunnel, surrounded by twice as much well-maintained square footage for your money and schools that are maintaining amidst a systemic decline.

Also, obviously I'm going to mention Troy Hill. It's mind-blowing to me that people are starting to pay $200k+ for houses in Upper Lawrenceville that are farther from Butler Street than Lowrie Street, when the same / better housing stock exists over on the Northside at 1/4 the price or less, in an area that is equally safe or safer. The amenities are not overwhelming but, for a community its size in 2014 Pittsburgh, they're still adequate / surprising. (E.g., Morningside has almost twice the population and probably 1/3 or 1/4 the business.) That said, I am pleasantly surprised at the extent to which the tide seems to have turned re: perception of Troy Hill on this forum. I think that the perception mirrors the reality, increasingly.

Also, you hear about Brighton Heights periodically, but Observatory Hill gets far fewer mentions. In my opinion, the housing there is incredible for the prices, and I imagine that one day the Baytree/Perrysyville area will start pulling in more business again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-25-2014, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Crafton, PA
1,173 posts, read 2,177,859 times
Reputation: 623
Agree on Brookline. In the same category, I'd mention Beechview. It's discussed here often but I don't think it gets it's due. The streetcar main drag is unique, along being located along a ridge with the steep topography. It might not have the upside of Brookline but I'd imagine it has a decent future.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Pittsburgh
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top