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Old 03-04-2014, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,603 posts, read 77,247,404 times
Reputation: 19066

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboPGH View Post
Well good for you bubba, but some people want to have a life outside of work. And a lot of those people have kids to feed.

Nobody should HAVE to work two jobs just to make ends meet. A lot of people made heavy sacrifices in the labor movements of the late 19th and early 20th century to improve the quality of life of the working masses. Some people feel they have little choice but to continue that struggle, and I applaud them.
Thanks for pointing out exactly why I have such a difficult time recruiting and retaining talent at our business---the lack of a true work ethic in America these days. It's always "too hard". I love what I do for a living. Yes, the hours are long, but at the end of a day I feel a sense of accomplishment and receive adequate compensation to reward me for my efforts. Our business has seen growth year-over-year between 2014 and 2013, and I'm hopeful that my efforts have played a role in that.

1.) "Life outside of work": I do have one, actually. I work six days per week, and my seventh day is free to do whatever I please. In the summer months, when business slows somewhat, I'll be able to vacation, dine out more, and reduce my hours so I'm just working five days per week. I know managing a small business isn't rocket science, and if I want to earn a decent living at a job that doesn't require much skill, then I need to maximize my hours to make the dollars pour in. I earn $11/hr. when I'm working in our office, and $15/hr., on average, when I'm making deliveries. That averages out to me making $13/hr. (with no benefits), which means I'm probably LESS well-compensated than many of these protesting UPMC workers who DO receive benefits. Am I protesting? No. I'm happy. Can I afford a house in the East End? No. Can I afford a big-screen 3-D SmartTV? No. Can I afford an Audi TT Roadster? No. I don't expect to acquire such material possessions unless I went back to school to pursue specialized certifications, my terminal degree(s), and made myself more marketable for a better-paying job. I've instead chosen to save to open my own business venture in about five years. I do make that $13/hr. stretch by living in a cheap apartment that I share, clipping coupons, being conservative with utilities, not blowing money on vices, etc., and, more importantly, by working in excess of 40 hours per week.

2.) Regardless of as to whether or not someone should "have" to work two jobs to make ends meet that is the reality of these uncertain economic times. We've been in a recession for many years now (I don't buy the bull excrement that we're out of the recession because enough discouraged workers have stopped looking for jobs to bring down the unemployment rate, and the 1% is raking in stock market profits). My father is an IT professional and worked two jobs stocking shelves at a grocery store and as a cashier at a convenience store when IBM laid him off in the early-2000s to hold him over and to support our family until something better came along. My mother also picked up a second job, and I worked as hard as I can before I was even 16 to help out, too. My family doesn't have today's poor work ethic of "I want more for as little effort as possible".

3.) I'm tiring of hearing the "they have kids..." spiel. Don't have a stable economic situation? Don't have kids. Problem solved. Everywhere I've worked I've seen parents receive special treatment in regards to being granted excessive time off to care for little ones, and in return we childless workers have to pick up their slack. Why should someone make more money at a menial job just because they chose to spread their legs wide open with a "baby daddy" and conceive a child?

4.) Of my workforce I'd say roughly 40% are those who already work a 40-hour per week job (at notoriously low-paying places like Pitt, PNC, and small businesses in the city) and are trying to pick up another 20-30 hours per week at our business to supplement their income due to those employers not paying much. Another 40% are "career professionals", who, like me, work as many hours as they possibly can to maximize their income. The remainder are students and/or semi-retirees looking for spending money.

5.) Why single out UPMC? PNC is probably our city's second-largest employer, earns mind-boggling profits, and its compensation structure is horribly outdated. There's no stratification to account for the disparities between the workload and stressload between urban and rural work settings---nor is there any consideration for parking reimbursement for urban workers vs. rural/suburban workers who receive free on-site parking. I was earning roughly the same in my position as others had been earning in my position years prior, despite the rapidly rising cost-of-living here. Bonuses were meager. Benefits were mediocre. Mandated quotas were demanding. There was always pressure to work through unpaid lunches, and we never received the two paid "breaks" we should have been receiving, creating more inequity. The company used the weak economy to its advantage, giving their employees the "love it or leave it" atmosphere to work within. When I argued these concerns and others with HR their solution was to terminate my employment---better to silence the squeaky wheel than to grease it. I'm sure there are many other "bad guys" in this city besides UPMC or even PNC, so I don't know why only UPMC is being singled out.
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:41 AM
 
674 posts, read 1,405,783 times
Reputation: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
Why should someone make more money at a menial job just because they chose to spread their legs wide open with a "baby daddy" and conceive a child?
Obviously you're fired up about this subject, but this is just tacky and ridiculous. You could've gotten your point across in a much more mature manner. You lose any power your argument had when you get all trashy like this.
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,360 posts, read 16,863,806 times
Reputation: 12390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
The difference is the person starting in an entry level professional job eventually moves on to earn higher pay. The person shoveling potatoes is making below a living wage even if they've been working for 30 years. Every person in our country deserves a LIVING wage. Those entry level professional workers deserve a living wage too. The more positions start earning living wages, the more likely the entry level professional positions will pay more than living wage.

And if everyone went to college and bettered themselves, who would shovel the potatoes? Then the potato shovelers will make 60k because nobody will do the job because everyone bettered themselves. That's the case for other jobs nobody wants to do. Garbage men average 43k in the US and 60k in CA. Portable toilet cleaners average 50k. Crime scene cleaners average 60k and can make over 100k with a college degree. I could go on and on.
I look at it a different way. Everyone is not college material. People vary in terms of their intelligence, and also aptitudes which make them a good or bad worker. The largest personality trait which determines if you are a good worker is conscientiousness.

The thing is, intelligence and personality traits are around 50% biological. The remaining 50% is sort of a mystery, but it's certainly not under conscious control, and is pretty well set by the time someone enters adulthood. You might end up "growing up" and being a better worker at age 30 than you were at 20, but chances are your "productivity percentile" adjusted for your age will be almost identical.

The question then becomes, if it's largely outside of our control if we are a good worker or not, why do we think "good workers" should get rewards? Or that "bad workers" should live miserable lives in poverty as motivation to try harder?
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:47 AM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read 25,764,588 times
Reputation: 17378
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
5.) Why single out UPMC?
They are a so-called non-profit that have over 25 people making over a million a year. They are certainly not a non-profit!

I do agree that all American companies are way top heavy and the greed has sure risen to the top. Watch the movie the Wolf of Wall Street and that is what you have running every American company out there. I guess GG was right. "Greed for the lack of a better word, is good".
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Old 03-04-2014, 08:55 AM
 
1,653 posts, read 1,575,589 times
Reputation: 2822
You know, BNY Mellon is hiring entry level accountants again. You could get a job putting you at close to 40k with benefits in not to much time for fortyish hours of work without destroying your car. Much better advancement potential too, which you're going to care a lot more about in ten years. The level of rage you have for your fellow man is going to eat you alive, and is not going to help you if you still want to sell real estate or run for public office in a few years. You still have a chance to get back on track but it's clear you can't do what you're doing without being miserable. You are much angrier than two years ago and it is completely avoidable.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:09 AM
 
288 posts, read 508,960 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I look at it a different way. Everyone is not college material. People vary in terms of their intelligence, and also aptitudes which make them a good or bad worker. The largest personality trait which determines if you are a good worker is conscientiousness.

The thing is, intelligence and personality traits are around 50% biological. The remaining 50% is sort of a mystery, but it's certainly not under conscious control, and is pretty well set by the time someone enters adulthood. You might end up "growing up" and being a better worker at age 30 than you were at 20, but chances are your "productivity percentile" adjusted for your age will be almost identical.

The question then becomes, if it's largely outside of our control if we are a good worker or not, why do we think "good workers" should get rewards? Or that "bad workers" should live miserable lives in poverty as motivation to try harder?
Not sure if I buy this. Point me to some research that shows people have no control over whether they become a good, productive worker.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:12 AM
 
Location: ɥbɹnqsʇʇıd
4,599 posts, read 6,683,232 times
Reputation: 3521
In the mid-60's my grandfather made $17 dollars an hour in today's money working an unskilled labor job. He had paid holidays and vacation, health care, 8 hour days/5 days a week, and made enough money to support a family. Why? Because he was making a true living wage. Why was he making a living wage? Because people fought and died for it decades prior.

If you don't want that for society as a whole, then you are probably out of touch. If you don't even demand that for yourself, well then you are just a fool.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:23 AM
 
Location: ɥbɹnqsʇʇıd
4,599 posts, read 6,683,232 times
Reputation: 3521
Bill Peduto tells the protestors to go home: Mayor asks UPMC protesters Downtown to 'return home' | TribLIVE

I mean, who needs Freedom of Assembly if you are going to p*ss off our Lord and Savior UPMC? So much for a "progressive" mayor...
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:31 AM
 
50 posts, read 66,064 times
Reputation: 70
Peduto is a chlen.

So much for power to the people Bill.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:49 AM
 
6,596 posts, read 8,910,128 times
Reputation: 4673
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
More specifically, why wouldn't UMPC be able to pay a decent wage? These sort of jobs are not going to be offshored to China. It's unlikely a robot will do many of these jobs within the next decade or two. UMPC has precious little in terms of competition in the region, and labor costs for unskilled workers make up a very small amount of hospital charges, meaning the change to bills will be relatively minor.
Bills may not change, but the quality of care might. Maybe they cut from 10 nurses in a unit to 8. Or cut out valet parking. No more people staffing the hospital information desks. Hell they had the nerve to threaten to close Shadyside Hospital of all places (obviously that was a political ploy, but still).

I'm not trying to defend them, but there are definitely ways they could pass the buck on to the consumers.
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