Franklin Regional Stabbing (Pittsburgh, Lancaster: upper-class, how much, homes)

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by jay5835

Because of "social" media, we now have a 24-hour bullying cycle.

yes, and broadcast world-wide.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by UKyank

That was the case (all juveniles tried as adults when they murder), but in 2010 a PA Superior Court found such to be unconstitutional .

Good! I'm surprised the website hasn't been updated to reflect that.

Originally Posted by Hopes

The 2011 ruling deemed juvenile life without parole to be cruel and unusual punishment. It allows for factors to be taken into consideration to allow for exceptions. The factors mentioned didn't make sense to me, like family background and income. I didn't have time to dig deep into it. Maybe later tonight I will.

I remember reading that case for class. My outline might have the factors in it (I'll check in a bit).

Originally Posted by h_curtis

It is odd people don't think others can be rehabilitated. I guess what you are saying is that you are the same person today than you were at age 10. There has been no progression and no improvements. Everyone never grows at all. They just are the same when born till death. That is how silly this sounds to me, but I digress. There would be no use talking to someone that doesn't believe anyone can improve themselves or be sorted out at all. Just lock all up that do anything remotely wrong and get rid of all medical people that deal with the human brain. No need for them. Get rid of psychology in schools and colleges. It is a farce and just something made up to waste time.

Putting the previous page's acrimony aside (I apologize, by the way; we both could/should have been more mature), I reiterate that our prison system is probably the worst of any 1st World Western nation. We face a lot more issues than other countries do, but that's no excuse for the barbaric environment most American prisoners have to face on a day-to-day basis.

We abandoned the "rehabilatory" system (which, ironically, was in many ways worse than today's system, given 18th/19th century "ideals") long ago, and the fact of the matter is, a lot of prisoners (mostly people with psychopathy/antisocial personality disorder who make up about 1/3) probably can't.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try for the other 2/3, particularly people with other mental conditions who can respond well to treatment. My law school training makes me "bound" to say little more than "this kid needs some sort of confinement [however long]" given that the only evidence we have is anecdotal hearsay at this point. Regardless, I hope his trial, if he's declared fit to have one, is just and takes all appropriate factors into consideration. Four counts of attempted homicide and 21 counts of aggravated assault are tough pills to swallow. Again, we need to hear more. It will be interesting to see how the trial unfolds.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I think the best thing to do with bullying is pretty simple - segregation of bullied kids.

I remember being a dorky kid who was picked on. I never understood, for example, why I was forced to have gym with all the jocks who not only didn't like me, but were pissed that I even had to play with them since I would just drop the ball or do something stupid. I wondered why we couldn't just have "nerd gym" where we'd all feel comfortable being terrible at what we were doing, while the jocks could have their competitive gym class too.

Take this to the logical conclusion. A decent sized school district is going to have at least 100-200 high-school age kids who are socially awkward in some manner. Why not try setting them up in a different building from the rest of the student body? Yes, they'll form their own social hierarchy, but even those at the bottom of the hierarchy there will undoubtedly be less shunned than they would be otherwise.

Some might argue this isn't fair, as which ever the smaller school is (another alternative would be to segregate the bullies, but this will be harder, since they aren't as easy to identify) those students would miss out on a wider set of course offerings and the like. But studies have suggested that things like this matter very little in terms of eventual life outcomes. In contrast, the effect of being a social outcast lasts forever - there's real reason to believe it's much more damaging in adulthood than something like a poor home life. I think the tradeoff is worth it personally.

Even though I disagree, this is an intriguing concept I'd love to discuss with you later when I have the time to fully flesh out my own thoughts/individual experiences (I was picked on, too). In the meantime, can you post the studies you're citing? I'm curious as to where/how they were carried out.

[EveKendall]

Although bullying is a terrible problem with social media providing no safe haven for its targets, there is no reason to assume this young man was bullied. I think part of the bullying narrative is due to the myths about Harris and Klebold being bullied, and that contributing to the shootings at Columbine. There is clearly something going on here with middle-class males that goes beyond bullying or mental health issues.

[Hopes]

I'm sharing this to answer two posts. The one asking if bullying is worse today, and the one suggesting victims should be segregated from bullies.

I don't consider myself bullied even though they called me a purple pig because I owned a purple coat and tied me to a telephone pole while walking home from elementary school. In middle school, two older girls stalked me and harassed me for a solid 6 months because I ran into them while running to class after the bell rang. Every time they showed up, I walked right up to them and faced them. My directness and showing lack of fear didn't stop them. It wasn't until another girl called me a "skinny little sl*t" in 9th grade that things changed for the better. I jumped her ass and beat the sh*t out of her. Nobody bothered me ever again.

If someone had segregated me from bullies, I wouldn't have learned to stand up for myself. I would have known I was segregated. It would have only taught me to avoid difficult people. The fact is we learn from being exposed to experiences, not being protected from them. I don't think segregating victims is the answer. They need to remain with the pack as long as possible to learn social skills. Whether you believe it or not, you did learn something by not being put aside in a safe room. I more support removing the bullies. The real bullies.

As for if bullying is worse today, my story above is relevant. If a picture was posted on the internet of me being tied to a telephone pole in my purple coat, I would have never lived that down. As it stood, only 4 kids knew about that. They might have told a few other people, but it's not like the entire school knew. It was easy to live down and eventually forgotten. Those kids ended up being very good friends of mine later in life. If it had been on the internet, everyone would have known about it, it would have been memorialized for eternity, and I would have never been friends with the kids who did that when we matured.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by EveKendall

Although bullying is a terrible problem with social media providing no safe haven for its targets, there is no reason to assume this young man was bullied. I think part of the bullying narrative is due to the myths about Harris and Klebold being bullied, and that contributing to the shootings at Columbine. There is clearly something going on here with middle-class males that goes beyond bullying or mental health issues.

I agree. And even with Harris and Klebold, the evidence is not as clear as what was first publicized, though there is plenty of evidence that Columbine had a fairly "mean girls/guys" environment. My oldest daughter was a freshman in a brand new high school that year, and her school was always doing all sorts of things to avoid being "another Columbine". Even so, there was plenty of bullying that went on there.

[Hopes]

Isn't the one thing they all have in common is being shy and socially awkward? Wouldn't society benefit from identifying these children and helping them learn the coping and social skills they need to function better with peers---as children and later adults too?

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Isn't the one thing they all have in common is being shy and socially awkward? Wouldn't society benefit from identifying these children and helping them learn the coping and social skills they need to function better with peers---as children and later adults too?

That can probably help in some cases, but it's also easier said than done for certain people, especially when their difficulties stem in great part from their natural personality (aside from any disorder that may or may not be present).

[BarqCider]

problem i feel with dealing with bullies is that students carry a gang mentality regarding snitching out the bullies in fear of repercussions.

look, i myself am a depressive person since i can remember. ive never gone to a shrink or anything. i have always felt this sadness/emptiness and i just deal with it( though past few years it been drinking until recently). Then again i never went to either extremes (suicide or killing), but felt like if i died by a 2nd party i would be ok with it.

and yes, i was bullied in hs but not to the degree this kid was. i eventually stood up and fought my bullies ( who at one point decided to get a handicapped kid to attack me and i didnt want to fight a mentally challenged kid who btw, tend to be stronger than they look)

so i can understand and i think those in his shoes can too.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by BarqCider

who at one point decided to get a handicapped kid to attack me and i didnt want to fight a mentally challenged kid who btw, tend to be stronger than they look.

I'm so sorry, but this in bold made me laugh. You painted quite a lively picture there.