Who's afraid of a Beltway? (Pittsburgh, Penn Hills: cul-de-sac, 2013, casinos)

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

OK, rush hour. What about the rest of the time?

If it isn't at rush hour, the issue doesn't require expanding the capacity of the road to solve it. There's plenty of road available during non-peak times.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

And that's great for them, I just don't see how that is a problem that the state and feds should spend billions of dollars to fix, especially when the current gas taxes aren't even sufficient to maintain the highways we've already built.

The state and federal government already spends all kinds of cash for transportation projects, the question is how to distribute it equitably among all of the needs out there.

Industrial and commercial activities in outlying areas are pretty critical to the region's success.

[PghYinzer]

I hate to sound like a city living suburb hater, but if you live in Penn Hills and work in Moon Township, I don't feel sorry for you. You have decided to live where you live and work where you work. I get the whole different strokes/folks thing, but part of your lifestyle choice of living in the suburbs is that you have to deal with the commute. Part of my lifestyle choice of living in the city is less room, but I have less of a commute.

Each has it's trade offs, and we each make decisions that lead to our current situations. Everyone can't have it all.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The state and federal government already spends all kinds of cash for transportation projects, the question is how to distribute it equitably among all of the needs out there.

How is it equitable to build a system where transportation by private automobile gets trillions of dollars of public investment (I'm talking over the nation) but if you ask for a few million for transit, nobody has any money?

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Seems like any concerns about job center shifts could be handled by zoning. Besides, a lot of the exodus from the city center was during suburbanization, and right now, the focus seems to be back on the city center again. And the Turnpike, 70, and 79 don't serve as a beltway.

How to nurture development? You need infrastructure.

Wow. I thought I was out-of-touch!

You actually expect suburban townships will NOT want to have prime land adjacent to new Beltway exits opened up for large-scale development that will bolster their tax bases? I can already picture numerous Beltway exits that have McMansion-dominated subdivisions, strip malls, fast food restaurants, office parks, big-box stores, etc. within a one-mile radius. How is this a positive for Pittsburgh? If you think Findlay Township or North Huntingdon Township wouldn't sell the city out by fleecing it of residents and employers to increase their own economic vitality then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

I saw this firsthand in my native Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area. Officials in Moosic, a borough adjacent to Scranton, championed the "scalping"...errrr..."redevelopment" of Montage Mountain, right along I-81, to feature a new "lifestyle center", movie theater, restaurants, hotels, office buildings, and hundreds of high-six-figure homes. I warned that doing this in an area that was economically-stagnant would result in inflicting duress upon Scranton. Nobody believed me. Now the "Shoppes at Montage" are thriving while the Steamtown Mall in Downtown Scranton is on the verge of bankruptcy. Thousands of white-collar positions are on Montage Mountain in MOOSIC instead of being just two or three miles away in Downtown Scranton. Moosic officials knew that their growth would come at the expense of Scranton. Did they care? No.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

If it isn't at rush hour, the issue doesn't require expanding the capacity of the road to solve it. There's plenty of road available during non-peak times.

For a moment, I'll pretend that you're right. Unfortunately, it still doesn't change the fact that half the interchanges are dangerous and poorly designed.

[FreightTrainRunning]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

And, believe it or not, many people in the suburbs just prefer to avoid the inner city if they can help it.

Why is it my job to support their irrational fears with my tax money?

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

For a moment, I'll pretend that you're right. Unfortunately, it still doesn't change the fact that half the interchanges are dangerous and poorly designed.

I agree that they are poorly designed, but they don't seem particularly dangerous so far as fatalities or serious injuries. I can't find a systematic study, but that's been the impression I get from reading the news over the years. The bad wrecks on the interstates seem to happen in the outlying areas or to people driving on near empty road in the early morning hours.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by PghYinzer

I hate to sound like a city living suburb hater, but if you live in Penn Hills and work in Moon Township, I don't feel sorry for you. You have decided to live where you live and work where you work. I get the whole different strokes/folks thing, but part of your lifestyle choice of living in the suburbs is that you have to deal with the commute. Part of my lifestyle choice of living in the city is less room, but I have less of a commute.

Each has it's trade offs, and we each make decisions that lead to our current situations. Everyone can't have it all.

So what if if a married couple bought a house in Penn Hills when they both had jobs in Monroeville, but then one of their jobs was transferred out to Moon Township?

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Why is it my job to support their irrational fears with my tax money?

I don't think its an irrational fear at all.


Many people just like to have a little bit of space, and enjoy their suburban, middle class culture which is so distinctively American.

The tax money goes both ways, of course. The under-river tunnel, and other transportation projects in the core area rely on tax dollars raised from suburban people.