Permit to tear down a non-load bearing wall? (Pittsburgh: new home, tenants)

[ibrocks]

We just purchased a home in the city and have taken the plaster off a non-load bearing wall (per a structural engineer's statement) and were about to remove the frame. We know there's no asbestos or lead paint (had it tested during inspection), and all the changes are really just cosmetic - to open the kitchen up to the dining area.

I just went to Pittsburgh city website and it seems as if we may need to get a permit for this?! Can I ask why? I would understand if it were a load bearing wall and they may want some additional support beams, but I have no desire to invite an inspector into my new home to tell me what our previous owner may or may not have done within Pitt's permit guidance.

Does anyone have experience with this? Do people really get permits to do cosmetic changes?

[Hopes]

Changing walls and floor plans is not just aesthetic. You are essentially turning two rooms into one room. You are changing how many rooms the house has. Cosmetic would be keeping the wall in place while tearing out the plaster and replacing it with drywall.

My building inspector always uses removing/replacing wood as a rule. For example, if I'm doing my roof and only removing/replacing shingles, I don't need a permit. However, if I am removing and replacing any rotted wood under the shingles, I need a permit.

You do need a permit. Food for thought: If you don't want them to see what previous tenants did without permission, why are you worried about getting permission yourself.

[guy2073]

Shingle replacement needs a permit, structural changes need a permit. Removing a non load bearing wall does not need a permit. You will need any plumbing, electrical, and hvac inspections and permits. If you are worried about a simple wall removal just call them.

[Ram8876]

Cosmetic changes do not need a permit. However, you are removing a wall. You had the knowledge to contact a structural engineer to assess the load bearing status of the wall. Have the engineer draft up some quick plans to show the wall is not load bearing and can be removed. It will make getting the permit a lot easier.

I chose to NOT remove a non-load bearing wall in my old house. I didn't feel like going through the bureaucracy.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Originally Posted by guy2073

Shingle replacement needs a permit, structural changes need a permit. Removing a non load bearing wall does not need a permit. You will need any plumbing, electrical, and hvac inspections and permits. If you are worried about a simple wall removal just call them.

Ugh! Not true, roof replacement does not need a permit. Including rotted wood planks underneath. Same with plumbing repair and minor electrical repair. If you start moving things, THEN you need a permit. Wall demolition needs a permit because someone has to verify its a non load bearing wall.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Lost_In_Translation

Ugh! Not true, roof replacement does not need a permit. Including rotted wood planks underneath.

I don't live in the city. I'm telling you, around here it's required for replacing rotted wood on roofs. Does that mean I will get a permit if that ever happens? No, because it's silly.

Originally Posted by Lost_In_Translation

Same with plumbing repair and minor electrical repair.

I agree with this. When we were hardwiring a new dishwasher, my building inspector said 1) we are allowed to do our own electrical work; 2) I only need a permit if the electrical inspector said it needed to be inspected. I followed up with calls to electrical inspector, and he said we didn't need an inspection or permit. I think the only electrical work in the house that ever needed to be permitted and inspected was the grounding.

[guy2073]

Originally Posted by Lost_In_Translation

Ugh! Not true, roof replacement does not need a permit. Including rotted wood planks underneath. Same with plumbing repair and minor electrical repair. If you start moving things, THEN you need a permit. Wall demolition needs a permit because someone has to verify its a non load bearing wall.

Why would you give bad advice, if you don't know 100% then dont answer. I am a general contractor. Every plumbing and electrical change needs an inspection. We may not get them on small electrical or plumbing repairs, but they are needed. Roof replacement is a cause for getting a permit. https://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/BB...rmit.html#dont. Non structure changes in a home do not need a permit they fall under finishes, like building a closet or changing a door size. The inspector is not comming out to tell you if a wall is holding up a load.

[Moby Hick]

That's a lot of permits. So far as I know, since it's been built, my house has had exactly one permit and that's for something on that list of things that don't need a permit.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by guy2073

Why would you give bad advice, if you don't know 100% then dont answer. I am a general contractor. Every plumbing and electrical change needs an inspection. We may not get them on small electrical or plumbing repairs, but they are needed.

That wasn't my experience at all. It all comes down to whatever your building and zoning department tells you. It seems they have their own interpretations. Since they're the inspectors, I have no problem taking their word for it if they tell me I don't need a permit. Of course, for big things, I like their word to be in writing, like the time he told me I didn't need a permit to do ANYTHING to my detached garage.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by ibrocks

We just purchased a home in the city and have taken the plaster off a non-load bearing wall (per a structural engineer's statement) and were about to remove the frame. We know there's no asbestos or lead paint (had it tested during inspection), and all the changes are really just cosmetic - to open the kitchen up to the dining area.

I just went to Pittsburgh city website and it seems as if we may need to get a permit for this?! Can I ask why? I would understand if it were a load bearing wall and they may want some additional support beams, but I have no desire to invite an inspector into my new home to tell me what our previous owner may or may not have done within Pitt's permit guidance.

Does anyone have experience with this? Do people really get permits to do cosmetic changes?

You need a permit for virtually anything in the city other than fences, most concrete work, gutters, and holiday lighting. You can probably get away without getting a permit in this case, but you are supposed to get one.

The inspector can only make you update things that you are currently working on. He won't tell you to change the plumbing in your bathroom while inspecting a wall tear down. But he may tell you to redo any pipes or electric going through that wall.