How Can we Curtail Senseless Acts of Violence in our Region (Oakland: homes, price)

[gg]

Incarceration is a lazy bandaid, nothing more. What does sending a 20 year old to jail do? Sure got him off the streets, but why was he there in the first place? He had nothing to do and got involved in drugs and money. Kids from age 8-10 need activities and those activities need to be constant and available all the time. Sadly, we like focusing on reprimand and punishment, instead of looking at why all this is happening. Obviously parents are hugely to blame, but it is a cycle. How does one break a cycle? Mentors and a place for kids to go to be in a better atmosphere. Stop thinking of punishments and start thinking about fixing the problem for real. Sure we won't fix ALL of it, but it would drop a lot if kids were given the chance to get away from the cycle. Yep, it is harder than just locking up the kids in the cycle. Deal with it.

[gg]

Originally Posted by UKyank

While it shouldn't be the answer & other methods need to be looked at, you likewise can't ignore the fact that as incarceration has increased in the US crime has decreased in direct correlation

I don't think it is as easy as that. Technology has helped in dropping crime rates. There are cameras all over the place to deter crime.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Incarceration is a lazy bandaid, nothing more. What does sending a 20 year old to jail do? Sure got him off the streets, but why was he there in the first place? He had nothing to do and got involved in drugs and money. Kids from age 8-10 need activities and those activities need to be constant and available all the time. Sadly, we like focusing on reprimand and punishment, instead of looking at why all this is happening. Obviously parents are hugely to blame, but it is a cycle. How does one break a cycle? Mentors and a place for kids to go to be in a better atmosphere. Stop thinking of punishments and start thinking about fixing the problem for real. Sure we won't fix ALL of it, but it would drop a lot if kids were given the chance to get away from the cycle. Yep, it is harder than just locking up the kids in the cycle. Deal with it.

And even that doesn't always work. My husband worked with a happily married woman with several kids. Kids all played ball or cheered, got good grades, heavily religious family, lots of parenteral interaction. The kids went on to college or got in the trades.

One son however, got involved in a neighborhood beef. He wasn't there when the whole thing happened, but when it came to go for retaliation, he was there with his friends. And was the shooter who missed the target (not hard to do in the fast moving car) and instead of killing the 16 year old, shot and killed a baby.

I guess we can give him credit -- he felt really bad and went to his pastor and confessed and the pastor got him to give himself up.

But if he had hit the right guy -- I'd bet he'd be fine with it and still walking outside today.

To me it's mind boggling. I have been angry enough to kill -- IF I HAD THE GUN IN MY HAND, OR in close proximity. If I had a gun, the gun would be locked up in a safe, and I had to go find the keys, and then find the keys to the ammo case, I'd have cooled down enough to realize just how stupid this is. That's the number one reason I won't have a gun.

For some reason they aren't seeing what I see -- that it's stupid to kill people because it doesn't get you anywhere but dead. It almost seems like a way of life. And it has been for generations. That's going to take a cultural shift.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

I have been angry enough to kill -- IF I HAD THE GUN IN MY HAND, OR in close proximity. If I had a gun, the gun would be locked up in a safe, and I had to go find the keys, and then find the keys to the ammo case, I'd have cooled down enough to realize just how stupid this is. That's the number one reason I won't have a gun.

It depends on the person. I didn't trust my first husband with a hunting rifle and made him keep it under the waterbed so he'd have to drain the waterbed to get it. I'm not the least bit concerned about my husband and our guns. He's very cool tempered under the most dire of circumstances. We kept the firearms and ammo locked due to the children. That's it. In all of my years living with firearms, which is most of my life, I never had the urge to get a gun out. It has never crossed my mind. I'd say it takes more forethought to get a weapon of any type even if one is nearby. I'd be more likely to physically jump someone than take the time to think of a weapon.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I knew it was due to fear of retaliation. We need to provide them with real witness protection. Witnesses for organized crime get it. IMO gangs are organized crime. Are witnesses not getting witness protection because they're black and live in the ghetto? Would they even be willing since it means leaving their community and having no contact with their large extended families forever?

Before suggesting it, one needs to ask if they're willing to do it themselves? First being a witness and then entering the system. Easy to suggest somebody do it until the shoes on your foot.

[Uptown kid]

Another thing....
The gangsters HAVE guns. Remember the Edgewood Towne Centre shooting. An alleged gang-affiliated indivual with the Braddocc Crips and some alleged gang-affiliated guys with the J-Town Hoods were carrying guns with them in EDGEWOOD. So you know the 20-35yr olds stay packing in their hoods and neutral ghettos, if they carry in non gang-affiliated/non ghetto neighborhoods/popular locations.

Also ever since the emergence Chief Keef and other hip hop artist from "Chi-Raq Drillinois", the teenage gangsters have been keeping extended clips. In other words, in the mean streets if Allegheny County its simply not cool to carry a pistol or glock anymore without extra magazines. This is what's getting scary.

BTW- for a long time I thought SCR was just a nubie... For years innocent people have been getting caught in the crossfire in the hoods of greater Pittsburgh. But I do think he's right. In recent years there has been a slight uptick in gang members killing civilians. While certain (NOT ALL but several) street gangs- where the leading members are young, don't condone it. In areas like: the Hawkins Village Projects, parts of Homewood, parts of Duquesne & parts of the Hill (among others), the younger gang members have earned a reputation for being fine with it. In one case they even raped about it on YouTube!

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Before suggesting it, one needs to ask if they're willing to do it themselves? First being a witness and then entering the system. Easy to suggest somebody do it until the shoes on your foot.

The problem is the option isn't even available to them!

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Hopes

The problem is the option isn't even available to them!

Not the issue.

IF it were available, would you do it if you had the opportunity to be a witness and enter the system?

Many feel they have all the answers, however, many of those same people don't do anything to participate with their ideas. In most cases it's always coulda, shoulda, woulda.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Not the issue.

IF it were available, would you do it if you had the opportunity to be a witness and enter the system?

Many feel they have all the answers, however, many of those same people don't do anything to participate with their ideas. In most cases it's always coulda, shoulda, woulda.

It is an issue. Even though it's not easy to do, people DO it. The inner city witnesses should have the same opportunity to protection that is provided witnesses of organized crime. Maybe some of these people who were killed would have been witnesses if they could have found protection before they were killed. It's not like it's always a surprise when a gang is after someone. And criminals turn on each other all the time to save their asses from being killed. People usually know when someone is after them. So, yes, there are people who would go into the witness protection program under certain circumstances if the option was available. The option not being available is a travesty.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Hopes

It is an issue. Even though it's not easy to do, people DO it. The inner city witnesses should have the same opportunity to protection that is provided witnesses of organized crime. Maybe some of these people who were killed would have been witnesses if they could have found protection before they were killed. It's not like it's always a surprise when a gang is after someone. And criminals turn on each other all the time to save their asses from being killed. People usually know when someone is after them. So, yes, there are people who would go into the witness protection program under certain circumstances if the option was available. The option not being available is a travesty.

I'll take that as a no you wouldn't. .

Its easy to suggest what others should do, with or without the option, until one is put in their position and then its not so easy.