Traveling in this area - outrageous Turnpike tolls and gas prices (income tax, exemptions)

[_Buster]

The only way toll roads would actually be fair is if every road and highway were tolled. Absurd, but fair. The fact that people who have no real choice but to rely on frequently driving tolls roads, while at the same time paying the same tax rates for other roads that they use far less often if ever, isn't fair. But politicians and governments LOVE complexity, so they like mulitple ways of paying for things, exemptions, etc. Just look at the monstrous federal income tax code.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by Drover

I'm not sure I understand the relevance or value of this response.

Why is a freeway with no tolls in better condition than a freeway with tolls? The argument is higher tolls are needed to maintain roads. I-75, and I-77, prove otherwise.

[PenguinsFan]

This will reiterate/summarize some of what was said.

Unlike the PennDOT roads which we all are forced to pay for through taxes whether we use them or not (as well as other forms of transportation), the Turnpike is something that you only pay for if you choose to use it. There could be some federal funding or PennDOT involvement depending upon a specific project at times. And don't forget that PennDOT is using the Turnpike's money for its own funding without the Turnpike getting anything back (due to the failure to toll I-80).

The Turnpike, as others have mentioned, is upgrading much of its length to be wider and improve safety which is very expensive. While it may seem like a relatively simple process, aside from having to acquire some properties, the fact that we have hills and valleys makes it very complex. You must either cut into the hills to widen or fill along the sides in valleys. It can take years to get the permitting to fill because naturally water runs to low lying areas which means you need approval from other agencies to do anything relating to water. Also, projects often require the construction large ponds to deal with stormwater. Cutting into the hills may seem simple, but some are very steep and they can only but so steep or may have unstable materials in them. In addition, bridges over the turnpike may need rebuilt with widening because they were only meant to span four lanes.

I'm amazed at the people who originally built the Turnpike. To decide its path, do all the earth moving, build bridges, and blast into the hills to get the slopes you see today, all without computers or calculators is pretty impressive stuff. Even construction equipment has come a long way since then.

[SammyKhalifa]

Now to be fair, Ohio doesn't quite have the challenges in its roads that PA has, with the hills, etc.

That said, I go back and forth to Akron fairly often, and get off on the "Parkway" exit to get back home.

==========
Exit 2 Gateway (Ohio Plaza)
to
Exit 10 New Castle

Current Toll:
Your Cash Toll Amount will be

• 2-Axle Toll: $5.90, at the Gateway Toll Plaza - Eastbound

Your E-Z Pass Toll Amount will be

• 2-Axle Toll: $4.14, at the Gateway Toll Plaza - Eastbound

Your mileage is approximately
9.27 miles


Yes, I've complained about this before.

Yes, I know that "if I don't like it I can take another way."

Yes, going down to East Liverpool and onto US 30 has been just fine. I guess PA would rather get my zero dollars instead of my two bucks or something reasonable for going TEN STINKING MILES on their toll road.

Please, everyone feel free to explain how charging six dollars do drive ten miles is reasonable and fair and not really stupid.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by PenguinsFan

The Turnpike, as others have mentioned, is upgrading much of its length to be wider and improve safety which is very expensive. While it may seem like a relatively simple process, aside from having to acquire some properties, the fact that we have hills and valleys makes it very complex. You must either cut into the hills to widen or fill along the sides in valleys. It can take years to get the permitting to fill because naturally water runs to low lying areas which means you need approval from other agencies to do anything relating to water. Also, projects often require the construction large ponds to deal with stormwater. Cutting into the hills may seem simple, but some are very steep and they can only but so steep or may have unstable materials in them. In addition, bridges over the turnpike may need rebuilt with widening because they were only meant to span four lanes.

I'm amazed at the people who originally built the Turnpike. To decide its path, do all the earth moving, build bridges, and blast into the hills to get the slopes you see today, all without computers or calculators is pretty impressive stuff. Even construction equipment has come a long way since then.

The PA Turnpike's route followed an existing railway line back in the 1930s.

The PA Turnpike was being widened in the early 1970s when I used to drive between Wilmington, Delaware and Wisconsin.

[TheYO]

Ohio Turnpike is ~$0.05 per mile with EZ Pass and ~$0.07 per mile without.

If you're tired of paying the $5 (or whatever it's up to now) to go from the state line to Cranberry, just do what I do:

Get off the last exit in Ohio (SR 7).
Take SR 7S to SR 165.
Take SR 165E to SR 14.
Take SR 14E to the PA border (becomes 51).
Take 51 to 376 and into the city.

In optimal conditions (like a Sunday afternoon with little traffic) it's only about 10 minutes longer. I'm from Youngstown, so I usually make this trip at least once a month. Leaving Pittsburgh, I'll do the normal 279-79-76 because the turnpike is free heading west. As long as I'm not in a rush to come back, I'll take that back way to save a few bucks.

[Goinback2011]

This is like asking why PA has State Stores when everyone but the employees are opposed to them.

The reason is: ballot initiatives aren't allowed here, so the legislature and special interests do whatever they want.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by ram2

The PA Turnpike was being widened in the early 1970s when I used to drive between Wilmington, Delaware and Wisconsin.

It was widened in the 1970s to make room for 4' interior shoulders and a median barrier in order to comply with Interstate standards. Much of the road was built long before Dwight Eisenhower even became president; therefore, there were no Interstate standards to design the road to. The widening during the 1970s corrected that. It's also likely that the widening involved only partial reconstruction, with a few feet of roadbed added alongside each side of the existing (and still relatively new at the time) roadbed.

What the widening did not do was expand the capacity of the Turnpike, which remained four lanes except for a segment near Philadelphia that was widened to six lanes during the 1980s. By the 1990s, traffic volumes on some segments of the Turnpike were beginning to exceed the designed capacity, and the roadbed was beginning to crumble after more than 50 years of service. This is when the Turnpike Commission began its total reconstruction efforts.

Between 1998 and 2005, the Turnpike Commission rebuilt several segments in western Pennsylvania, mostly in the Laurel Highlands. Sometime between 2005 and 2008, however, they ultimately decided to widen the Turnpike to six lanes in addition to their total reconstruction efforts. Every segment of the Turnpike that's been reconstructed since 2008 features six lanes, and so will every segment reconstructed in the future. This means that those segments of the Turnpike reconstructed before 2005 will eventually require partial reconstruction (widening the existing roadbed) to add lanes, but the good news is, these segments of the Turnpike add up to only 40 miles out of its 360-mile length, and most of them are in the Laurel Highlands.

There's a difference between a resurfacing and total reconstruction. Resurfacing just means grinding down the top layer of pavement and overlaying asphalt on top of it. A total reconstruction involves digging the entire highway out of the ground and rebuilding everything, including the roadbed, drainage, embankments, bridges, and curve/ramp geometry. Total reconstruction is much more expensive than resurfacing, but it needs to be done once a highway has become either functionally obsolete or been used beyond its service life.

[ditchdigger]

PA is spending Turnpike money on other roads.

And since, moreso than local roads, the Turnpike carries a large number of out of state vehicles, we're essentially getting other people to pay for some of our maintenance.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by ram2

Why is a freeway with no tolls in better condition than a freeway with tolls? The argument is higher tolls are needed to maintain roads. I-75, and I-77, prove otherwise.

No, they don't "prove otherwise." There could be any number of reasons why a freeway with no tolls is in better condition than a "freeway with tolls" (isn't that a contradiction?). That one might be in better condition than the other is not in and of itself an argument for or against tolls nor an argument that using the PA turnpike is significantly more expensive than using the Ohio turnpike as the OP seems to believe.