Apple seeks to expand its presence in Pittsburgh (York, Washington: 2015, chapel)

[sealie]

Originally Posted by GeneW

You can argue all you want about the relative merits of urban vs. suburban office locations but I'm still going to be very surprised if Apple chooses to move anywhere outside of the city of Pittsburgh.

Nobody said they would. What triggered this, predictably, was PghYinzer and Aqua Teen Carl responding to another one of SCR's claims that fresh young millennial talent gets whatever it wants.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

I think employers are finally getting the picture that if they want to target Millennials for their workforce, then they need to think like a Millennial. Today's "hip young people" don't want any part of living OR working in Robinson, Moon, Murrysville, Cranberry, or Southpointe, where "free parking" is the only perk.

In other words, he extrapolated from Apple's actions that this is going to be the new normal if you want to hire talent. ATC/PY are simply saying that this is a wild extrapolation. If you're an Apple or a Google where money is no object, or a company that gains some prestige from being in the city, or a startup not needing a ton of space and paying people in hipness and stock options, sure. But that is not everybody. It wasn't everybody in the 90s either, when the rush back to the cities started and the dotcom bubble was in full inflation. There's always going to be somebody who'll take an extra 10k or so to drive to Moon, and there's always going to be somebody who has to take what they can find for their first job. I don't see Dick's moving or AE moving. This is the point, nobody is suggesting Apple or Google is going to be far from the East End.

[wyoh]

Originally Posted by ferraris

That only applies to maybe the top 10 or 15 percent. The rank and file on help desks, imaging PCs, and low to intermediate level analysts, sysadmins, and programmers don't have that luxury.

The top in their field having the luxury of choosing where to work is probably true in most industries.

ATC and I have both been through the hell of IT contractors and "permatemp" positions in Pittsburgh if I remember right. Qualifications take a back seat to connections.

Took me a while to get back to this thread but I do think it's worth defending my opinion a bit here. I'm speaking just from my own experience and the experience of people I've worked with over the years, and this is mostly aimed at developers rather than IT admins, help desk employees, etc. I would be surprised if it weren't similar for them but I can't speak to it directly.

It's possible that the 10-15% number is accurate. I don't think I'm in the top 10-15% of software engineers which is why I think that's pretty low but maybe I am and I don't realize it. I have a bachelor's degree, no advanced degree and no further certifications or clearances.

All that being said, in the 15+ years I've been writing software things have remained relatively the same. The job market for software developers has always been strong. I'm about to test the market so I'll know firsthand shortly. When the job market is especially good for a field it gives all the leverage to the workers in that field. Employers know that they have to bend over backward to attract good talent in software and that's what they do. You know the stereotype of the developer that rolls into work at noon wearing flip-flops, a ripped t-shirt, and carrying a skateboard? There's a reason he can get away with that and the stereotype exists because developers do get away with it. It's not just Apple and Google either - almost every business dependent on software that I know of goes out of their way to appeal to developers in some way.

What does this mean for Apple? I can't see them going outside the city. I think they'll do what people expect and grab space in the CMU - East End corridor. Their competition for employees is Google and Google has a great office in the city.

[wyoh]

Originally Posted by sealie

There's always going to be somebody who'll take an extra 10k or so to drive to Moon, and there's always going to be somebody who has to take what they can find for their first job. I don't see Dick's moving or AE moving. This is the point, nobody is suggesting Apple or Google is going to be far from the East End.

I think that's a little different than what SCR is saying. It's one thing to target millennials and try to attract good talent. It's another to just need employees and count on people that will work for you for an extra 10k or that just need their first job. There are a lot of companies in this area that would like to (and do) compete for that first group of people.

Does AE = American Eagle? They're set up to attract young talent, no doubt about it. Really nice subsidized cafeteria and lunchroom, cool building, pretty good location.

[ferraris]

Wyoh, I think we're probably on the same page then. You first worded as "IT Community", but "Software engineers" is a smaller subset of that community, and even the lowest software engineers are relatively high in the greater IT hierarchy. So someone could maybe be in the top 50% of software engineers, but still in the top 15% of IT employees.

[wyoh]

Originally Posted by ferraris

Wyoh, I think we're probably on the same page then. You first worded as "IT Community", but "Software engineers" is a smaller subset of that community, and even the lowest software engineers are relatively high in the greater IT hierarchy. So someone could maybe be in the top 50% of software engineers, but still in the top 15% of IT employees.

In retrospect that was definitely a mistake on my part. I should have probably said developers to begin with. I tend to just say "IT" because I'm never sure how much people outside the field know about the different roles that "computer people" can hold. I've heard enough mangled interpretations of what I do for a living that I just default to "I do computer stuff" most of the time.

[captainmidnight]

I would assume Apple hires only highly qualified people and a degree from a high tech reputation school like CMU would probably at least get you an interview so it is natural they would want to be close to there. They probably hire recent graduates or close to graduating seniors and get them ingrained in the Apple culture to move up the ladder. If they set up shop in Cranberry or Moon (I don't even know if any other suburb would qualify) that would harder to do.

I think if you work in IT in a standard position with some experience such as a system admin, system analyst, programmer, help desk, etc you could pretty much work at any decent sized company as they require all those positions and usually have openings for them. However, companies like Apple and Google require a certain "cream of the crop" and probably isn't going to hire a run of the mill system analyst with three years experience and a Bachelors in Information Systems from Pitt and working at PPG, for example. Not that there is anything wrong or at fault with that education or job at PPG, or PNC, UPMC, US Steel, etc. You can have a perfectly fine career and life at those places with out ever working for a Apple/Google/Facebook,etc.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by bmantz65

I would assume Apple hires only highly qualified people and a degree from a high tech reputation school like CMU would probably at least get you an interview so it is natural they would want to be close to there. They probably hire recent graduates or close to graduating seniors and get them ingrained in the Apple culture to move up the ladder. If they set up shop in Cranberry or Moon (I don't even know if any other suburb would qualify) that would harder to do.

I think if you work in IT in a standard position with some experience such as a system admin, system analyst, programmer, help desk, etc you could pretty much work at any decent sized company as they require all those positions and usually have openings for them. However, companies like Apple and Google require a certain "cream of the crop" and probably isn't going to hire a run of the mill system analyst with three years experience and a Bachelors in Information Systems from Pitt and working at PPG, for example. Not that there is anything wrong or at fault with that education or job at PPG, or PNC, UPMC, US Steel, etc. You can have a perfectly fine career and life at those places with out ever working for a Apple/Google/Facebook,etc.

Right,because no one wants to go to Mountain View to work for them. They'd rather work in downtown SF for less money! In point of fact, I know a CMU grad who is working there in Mountain View. He does have a master's, not just a bachleor's, and was hired after doing an internship there (Mtn. View). There is a subset of people who want to work for Apple or Google and they will go where the jobs are.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Right,because no one wants to go to Mountain View to work for them. They'd rather work in downtown SF for less money!

I'm very certain nobody is making the Cranberry:Pittsburgh::Mountain View:San Francisco argument.

Also, Google is in Mount View. Apple is Cupertino.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

I'm very certain nobody is making the Cranberry:Pittsburgh::Mountain View:San Francisco argument.

Also, Google is in Mount View. Apple is Cupertino.

Correct. I got mixed up because this person I know lives in Mountain View and works at Apple. The closest college to Cupertino appears to be San Jose State. So I don't think it's Apple's policy to be situated close to some high-tech university. And I do stand by what I said; there's a subset of people who want to work for them no matter where they are located.

I think SCR was trying to make the point that they'd have to locate in the city to attract workers.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Correct. I got mixed up because this person I know lives in Mountain View and works at Apple. The closest college to Cupertino appears to be San Jose State. So I don't think it's Apple's policy to be situated close to some high-tech university. And I do stand by what I said; there's a subset of people who want to work for them no matter where they are located.

I think SCR was trying to make the point that they'd have to locate in the city to attract workers.

SCR wasn't said anything for three days and has only one post in this whole thread. Many people, myself included, have made the point that if high tech companies are to locate in the Pittsburgh area, they will have to locate in the city of Pittsburgh. Which they have (Apple, Google are already there).

I don't think anybody has, or that anybody knowledge would, argue that Silicon Valley operates by the same city-suburb dynamic.