$3M grant for redevelopment on the North Side (E Ohio St) (Pittsburgh: 2014, houses)

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

It looks like there will be many historic buildings lost in this development:

The 1885 Victorian commercial structure next to the bank is to be razed, as well as several houses on Phineas Street. This is one of the oldest surviving neighborhoods in the city. Some of the houses date to the 1830s Canal Era period. It is also a National Register eligible area.

I think there is good and bad to this development. Yes, it is a chopped up block, and a hotel or other development would be great there, but why does it have to be at the expense of some of the oldest houses still standing in Pittsburgh? 1830s era homes are pretty rare in Pittsburgh. Most of the homes of that vintage probably went up in flames during the great fire of 1845, or were razed for the Lower Hill and Central North Side developments during the urban renewal era. I mean, look at the houses on Phineas. They are significant compared to most of the surviving architecture in Pittsburgh. We need to start taking our history seriously, and not just looking at these buildings as "just another old house."

Overall, I think a hotel would be good for that block, but take a look at what's around it, appreciate it, and preserve it as part of the development!

I'm really sorry to hear this...can I ask if there's a source you can share with info on this? I was happy to see the map/plan that eschaton shared (8:17pm above), because it looks on there like only a small portion of Phineas would be affected, and none of the structures torn down, because the development pulls back and follows Guckert Way. I don't know eschaton's source for that map, either...if either of you could clarify if you're sure about the fate of Phineas one way or another, I'd really appreciate it.

That's really too bad about the structure next to the old bank. I was hoping it would be saved, or at least that the facade would be preserved and incorporated into whatever is being planned. I was also wondering about the other buildings along E Ohio (the ones with signs for Caskey, Staiger, and Bug Muggers) -- I figured 818 E Ohio (Caskey) is probably going to be torn down at the very least, which is a shame given the neat masonry and brickwork on the facade, but I imagine the building is in awful condition. If anyone knows if 840 and 842 E Ohio might be saved, I'd love to know; it's a little ambiguous on the map eschaton posted, and they are in somewhat better shape, which gives me some hope.

[PreservationPioneer]

I have inside sources, because I am a preservation blogger, but the details haven't been confirmed yet. When I have all of the info, I will blog about it with the facts. However, if you do a search of Phineas Street on the Allegheny County Assessment site, you'll see that many of the old houses are owned by October Development and Alfred DePasquale. DePasquale is a manager of October Development. This tells me that they acquired the houses possibly with the purpose of demo in mind. Perhaps I am wrong, and they intend to rehab the houses.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

I have inside sources, because I am a preservation blogger, but the details haven't been confirmed yet. When I have all of the info, I will blog about it with the facts. However, if you do a search of Phineas Street on the Allegheny County Assessment site, you'll see that many of the old houses are owned by October Development and Alfred DePasquale. DePasquale is a manager of October Development. This tells me that they acquired the houses possibly with the purpose of demo in mind. Perhaps I am wrong, and they intend to rehab the houses. What do you think?

Well -- the first thing I think is that you clearly know more about the situation than I do; I'll look forward to seeing your blog post. When it goes up, can you share a link here, or else send me a message?

About October Development, I've gone through that same website that eschaton posted (October Development), and I like what I see. I walk by many of their projects often (like Tripoli and James Streets, and the new buildings going up on Suismon) and have always admired them. It really does seem like they are committed to rehabbing older homes rather than tearing them down...now, from an architectural point of view, we can agree that preserving a whole structure is better than just preserving a facade, of course, but from a practical point of view I can see where compromises may have to be made if they realistically expect to sell the houses that they fix up. I don't know how careful October is about preserving the full houses as opposed to just the facades, but it looks like keeping the "historic" character of the community is a priority for them, and I'll take that over letting the buildings sit empty and rot, or else be neglected by uncaring landlords.

So, my guess from looking at the website, and the map eschaton posted, is that they bought the Phineas St houses with the intention of rehabbing them, and the expectation that the rehabbed homes will be much more valuable sitting next to a new building along E Ohio, which will shelter Phineas from 279 and E Ohio, and make the neighborhood safer by filling in empty, blighted spaces. Their website certainly gives me the impression that they want to keep the "historic" parts of Deutschtown intact. I'll be very, very sad if the opposite is true, and if Phineas is torn down...but I'm hoping they really mean what they say on their website, and will preserve that block.

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Here's a link to the Comfort Inn on W. 25th St. in New York.


Comfort Inn New York 18 West 25th Street

I don't think there is a building on this corner that is large enough to be repurposed like that one?

[eschaton]

I put together the initial block looking at the property ownership on this map. You can zoom in and get information on any property. Much less unwieldy than the old system of using the Allegheny County Assessor's site for searches. The reason I didn't include the properties on Phineas is because they aren't contigious. I updated the map, however, to include the three chunks October Development owns on the south side of Phineas.

Going through the chunks, there's a duplex not owned by October, then a chunk owned by them with one surviving house (looks like two in the overhead, but one has been knocked down already). Then a chunk of land not owned by them - a parcel with a garage, an intact house with alley house, and a vacant lot where a house once stood. Then another October group of parcels, including mostly vacant lots, but two intact houses on Perelta and one alley house which is falling apart. Finally a vacant lot they don't own, and one house and one duplex they do own.

Without buying out the remaining property owners on the street (which I have to believe they tried) I don't think it will make sense for them to include all of this in the development. The last two structures are totally disconnected from the land they own on East Ohio, for example. I could see putting an access driveway on Perelta somewhere near the middle though. Frankly however, unless they plan to use surface lots for all 300 spaces (which they aren't - article indicates garage), I'm not sure how they'd need all this space for a modest-sized apartment building, hotel, the ARC House restaurant, and the parking. It's likely that at least some of the properties are being land banked for now, with the hope that once the hotel is built they can engage in a "phase 2" of construction.

If worse comes to worse, people can always protest during the zoning approval.

Edit:

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

If anyone knows if 840 and 842 E Ohio might be saved, I'd love to know; it's a little ambiguous on the map eschaton posted, and they are in somewhat better shape, which gives me some hope.

These are not owned by October Development, so there is no reason to think they will be knocked down.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Wow, thanks for all the clarification, this is really interesting. Also glad to hear 840 and 842 E Ohio aren't part of this project. I hope you're right, that the new development won't hurt Phineas...that being said, I walked through today and noticed that, in general, the structures on the north side of the street are better preserved, and the south side is mostly empty lots. Even so, there's 3 or 4 really nice ones on the south side, and I'm really hoping those ones will be saved and renovated later, as you're suggesting.

The old ARC building strikes me as way too big for just a restaurant. I wonder if the upper floors of that might become part of the apartment complex? Or the Comfort Inn? I'll be curious to see what they're thinking...

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

Wow, thanks for all the clarification, this is really interesting. Also glad to hear 840 and 842 E Ohio aren't part of this project. I hope you're right, that the new development won't hurt Phineas...that being said, I walked through today and noticed that, in general, the structures on the north side of the street are better preserved, and the south side is mostly empty lots. Even so, there's 3 or 4 really nice ones on the south side, and I'm really hoping those ones will be saved and renovated later, as you're suggesting.

If you look at old satellite maps, the biggest gaps in Phineas seem to be decades old. One house seems to have been knocked down between 2005 and 2012, and two more have been knocked down more recently. Only one of these demolitions was on a parcel owned by October Development.

Regarding current October Development houses, I think this one is most likely to come down, even if they are doing rehab. They cleared out some old frame houses to make way for new construction on Suismon, so they don't have an issue with demolishing things which are old and ugly. And that house kinda is. These two could survive, depending upon their plans. I don't think these are in any danger at all.

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

The old ARC building strikes me as way too big for just a restaurant. I wonder if the upper floors of that might become part of the apartment complex? Or the Comfort Inn? I'll be curious to see what they're thinking...

The usage listed on the assessor's site is for retail/apartments over. On the other hand, attaching a restaurant with a banquet hall to a hotel makes some logical sense. I could see it going either way.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Thanks for all this...you can tell I don't actually know a lot about finding concrete information; I just walk around a lot with my fingers crossed that the neighborhood will improve without losing its character.

Am I right in thinking that October doesn't own this one? (Red brick with green trim, just a little further down towards 279.) It's not one of the oldest on the block, but still very handsome, and since it has empty lots on both sides I wonder if it might get torn down for convenience...but I sure hope not.

I'm willing to be pragmatic -- I understand that there just isn't enough money out there to save absolutely everything, so I won't pitch a fit if/when the ugliest buildings have to go -- but still, I do hope as much as possible is saved. There's something special about seeing history through architecture, even if it means seeing the difference between the beautiful houses built when the area was rich, and the "ugly" houses that were built when it was comparatively poor.

[aw_now_what]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Regarding current October Development houses, I think this one is most likely to come down, even if they are doing rehab. They cleared out some old frame houses to make way for new construction on Suismon, so they don't have an issue with demolishing things which are old and ugly. And that house kinda is.

Look at the side of that house- it's an old saltbox and probably dates to the 1830s or so. Something like that should be restored rather than torn down.

[PreservationPioneer]

Check out that ancient wood siding on the side of it.