Why is the North Side so stagnant? (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: rental, home)

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

I think "if it hasn't already" is key there. Predicting Highland Park to take off is a bit like predicting someone might build a shopping complex along the Mon where the Homestead Works used to be.

This. Highland Park is already very nice. Now that I live nearby I spend a lot of time exploring the nearby streets. Almost everything east of N Highland is single family housing (e.g., nothing split into apartments) and seems as rich as much of Squirrel Hill. Most of the rest of the neighborhood above Wellesley is clearly upper middle class as well, although you do still see the occasional house in poor repair. It's really only the southern two blocks in Central/Western Highland Park which are still gentrifying, but not fully gentrified. There are certainly flips going on here though. I walked by a house the other week which was having its front yard dug out to knock a hole in the basement foundation and put a garage in. You don't do that unless you think there's a market for quite expensive houses.

The biggest issue that Highland Park has is Bryant Street is suprisingly ratty considering how gentrified the residential neighborhood is. That said, the new infill project there is already doing wonders for the cohesiveness of the street. Southern Highland Park could really use its own business district as well. The 900 block of Mellon Street has 5 storefronts (most of which are now empty, aside from the dog grooming place). It would work wonders for that area (and the northernmost part of East Liberty) if there was some more commercial vitality there.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

The lack of a solid business district also hurts the area significantly. There simply isn't the commercial infrastructure remaining to have anything like Butler or East Carson. East Ohio Street could eventually become something much more promising, but it's really only 2-3 blocks long - and not really walkable unless you're in Deutschtown anyway. Western Avenue will never fill in unless there's some infill apartments in or near Allegheny West to up the local residential density - a few hundred upper middle class to wealthy people can't make a viable business district. And even if the Garden Theatre block is eventually redeveloped as commercial, there's still going to be an extreme paucity of commercial space in the Central Northside.

The real tragedy of Allegheny Center. It really did demolish the commercial heart of Allegheny City. You can see how Western Ave and East Ohio St were always just supporting players. Perhaps a re-imagining of the Mall can recapture a portion of what was lost.

[robrobrob]

[quote=eschaton;39401904]This. Highland Park is already very nice. /quote]

It is all relative. When we looked at houses there a decade ago it was nice then but no where near as nice as it is now. In the late 1970's to 1980's you made a choice to live there that was out of the ordinary. Some parts where nice but the rest where just ok. A friend bought a house on Mellon St. for 25,000 grand in the very early 1990's. Sold it for roughly 260,000 a decade later. Sure he fixed it up but still.

Now, people want to live in Highland Park. I think back then it was a cheap alternative to Squirrel Hill.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Lobick

The real tragedy of Allegheny Center. It really did demolish the commercial heart of Allegheny City. You can see how Western Ave and East Ohio St were always just supporting players. Perhaps a re-imagining of the Mall can recapture a portion of what was lost.

I don't think Western Avenue was ever really meant to be a commercial district. If you look at the old maps from 1910, only a few of the structures were storefronts at that time. You can still see this, insofar as many are still houses, and most which aren't were clearly later modified.

There were numerous other, accessory business districts which are now gone though. Foremost among them was Beaver Avenue, where 65 is today. It was a long business district similar to East Carson in scope, running all the way from the present top of Manchester down to around the intersection of W North Avenue. Pennsylvania Avenue in Manchester (where the nasty split levels are today) had its own small business district as well. Not to mention lower Federal, where PNC Park is today, along with a bit of Sandusky. Over half of East Ohio Street is gone. What's now Madison Avenue used to have its own business district. of course, Chestnut Street was mostly commercial as well (some blighted storefronts remain there), originally extending several blocks down into old Schweitzer Lock, right to the river. Even the area around the Garden Theatre used to be more extensive, with commercial storefonts extending to Parkhurst Street, and even a bit beyond this.

The bottom line is that the entire lower North Side used to be an amazing, gigantic mixed-use area similar to Center City Philadelphia. Over half of it was destroyed.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

It is all relative. When we looked at houses there a decade ago it was nice then but no where near as nice as it is now. In the late 1970's to 1980's you made a choice to live there that was out of the ordinary. Some parts where nice but the rest where just ok. A friend bought a house on Mellon St. for 25,000 grand in the very early 1990's. Sold it for roughly 260,000 a decade later. Sure he fixed it up but still.

Now, people want to live in Highland Park. I think back then it was a cheap alternative to Squirrel Hill.

Looking on Trulia, Highland Park's price per square foot ($146) beats out every part of the city besides the Strip District, Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, Point Breeze, and Southside Flats. I'd call that having arrived. There's a few sketchy blocks, but then again, Point Breeze still has some sketchy blocks in Park Place, so I think the two are pretty comparable at this point.

[norcider]

"The bottom line is that the entire lower North Side used to be an amazing, gigantic mixed-use area similar to Center City Philadelphia. Over half of it was destroyed."
Yes, this. I have said it before, ever since the acquisition by the City of Pittsburgh has sacrificed the NS in the name of progress over and over. Old Allegheny City has been the red-headed step child of Pittsburgh ever since and in many ways, remains so to this day. Seems the only area the city is invested in (and really, I could do without another crappy chain restaurant or sports bar) is the area immediately across the river and before the tracks. I also believe we suffer from a stagnant image problem. Most NS neighborhoods are perfectly safe. I see hope though, more and more young people buying the houses of the recently departed elderly.

[Geeo]

It's also wrong to lump all of the separate neighborhoods as "the North Side." TV news does this a lot, although they sometimes delineate which neighborhood something happened in. It would be like calling everything south of the Monongahela River the "South Side."

The North Side is comprised of probably 12 or 15 distinct neighborhoods, some more further along in development, some still lacking resources and amenities. But most are very safe with longtime residents and new people moving in.

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by Geeo

It's also wrong to lump all of the separate neighborhoods as "the North Side." TV news does this a lot, although they sometimes delineate which neighborhood something happened in. It would be like calling everything south of the Monongahela River the "South Side."

Yes, I agree. I think once, pre-Heinz field, there actually was a "North Side" which, I think, morphed in name to become the "Alleghenies", but included the Mexican War Streets and Deutschtown (sp), but not Brighton Heights, Marshall-Shadeland, Spring Hill, etc. The "North Side" was a small part of the northern side of the City.

Highland Park - a mostly decent and beautiful neighborhood and a joy to be in and around, on foot or on bicycle. Which means I will never live there.

[norcider]

North Side was solid Native American territory. There was a burial ground about where Three Rivers Stadium sat, a big one. The natives had the North Side, if one crossed the river they may find themselves abducted and tortured to death on Smoky Island in full view of people at the Point.

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by norcider

North Side was solid Native American territory. There was a burial ground about where Three Rivers Stadium sat, a big one. The natives had the North Side, if one crossed the river they may find themselves abducted and tortured to death on Smoky Island in full view of people at the Point.

Map?