Since the northside is a hot topic at the moment - what's anyone's current, up to date thoughts on Lower Manchester? (Pittsburgh: 2015, roughest)

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

Wouldn't Lower Manchester be the area closest to the river? If so, it's in pretty decent shape already. Upper manchester is the area with the blight.

The area of Manchester closest to the river is now called "chateau",

[Der Schwabe]

We looked here pretty seriously two years ago and I agree with most of what you have said upthread. Some gorgeous houses are there are some very nice people who are invested in the neighborhood. Depending upon the location of this house, you may even be within a comfortable walk to the Western Ave businesses.

The farther up toward Liverpool you get, the more isolated it feels. We experienced the same sort of eerie silence to some extent, which is in such stark contrast to some of the architectural treasures up there. You may need to move sooner rather than later, but it seems that North Side real estate is a waiting game to find an updated place that isn't a drastically overpriced flip.

I agree with Merge that the East End is just as much of a gamble as far as whether you are actually close to a walkable business district, coffee shop, restaurant as you posted. The premium you pay there is steep. As PGHYinzer mentioned, you may not even be looking over there, but Beechview and Brookline are solid options if you're willing to take a gamble on areas that people are looking to for affordable housing, good dining options and yes, some very good coffee shops within walking distance (Brew on Broadway and Cannon Coffee). They haven't gotten as much attention from the press and Pittsburgh boosters but are starting to. And of course, as these things go, by the time an area is recognized as up and coming, you're already too late.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Manchester is improving steadily, but don't buy if you don't feel good there. Try hanging out in the Chateau Cakery next time you're over there -- they are pretty great, and you will likely meet people who can offer you good advice about the specific street(s) where you are looking.

I think Deutschtown, Spring Garden, and the front parts of Troy Hill are set to come back faster, because they are so close to the Strip and also have a better business district of their own. Not that Manchester is a bad place to invest...but it's a question of how patient you can afford to be, and how comfortable you feel about a neighborhood that has some great streets, and also some very sad ones.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Der Schwabe

I agree with Merge that the East End is just as much of a gamble as far as whether you are actually close to a walkable business district, coffee shop, restaurant as you posted. The premium you pay there is steep. As PGHYinzer mentioned, you may not even be looking over there, but Beechview and Brookline are solid options if you're willing to take a gamble on areas that people are looking to for affordable housing, good dining options and yes, some very good coffee shops within walking distance (Brew on Broadway and Cannon Coffee). They haven't gotten as much attention from the press and Pittsburgh boosters but are starting to. And of course, as these things go, by the time an area is recognized as up and coming, you're already too late.

Yeah. Where I live now in southern Morningside isn't particularly walkable. It's about a 15-minute walk to either Greenwood (Morningside's business district, which has nothing but a Rite-Aid and a passable bar) or Bryant. And it takes around half an hour to walk from the center of East Liberty to my house. In general I'd say everything in the southern Highland Park/Northern East Liberty area is only semi-walkable. The same can be said for almost all of Point Breeze, much of Squirrel Hill, etc.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Someone more knowledgeable about the area can correct me, but I view lower Manchester as the areas between N Western Ave & say, N. Franklin or Liverpool St, boxed in by 65 & Allegheny Ave.

'Decent shape' is still street by street in my opinion.

I can kinda see what you mean... it does have a slight industrial wasteland feel to it down there against that hard edge. I like it though. Hell, I even like Cal-Kirkbride... so, I'm probably an outlier in this regard.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Yeah. Where I live now in southern Morningside isn't particularly walkable. It's about a 15-minute walk to either Greenwood (Morningside's business district, which has nothing but a Rite-Aid and a passable bar) or Bryant. And it takes around half an hour to walk from the center of East Liberty to my house. In general I'd say everything in the southern Highland Park/Northern East Liberty area is only semi-walkable. The same can be said for almost all of Point Breeze, much of Squirrel Hill, etc.

I used to stop in at that coffeehouse down there... was it Morning Glory? That seemed like a pretty good asset that never got embraced by the community.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by Der Schwabe

We looked here pretty seriously two years ago and I agree with most of what you have said upthread. Some gorgeous houses are there are some very nice people who are invested in the neighborhood. Depending upon the location of this house, you may even be within a comfortable walk to the Western Ave businesses.

The farther up toward Liverpool you get, the more isolated it feels. We experienced the same sort of eerie silence to some extent, which is in such stark contrast to some of the architectural treasures up there. You may need to move sooner rather than later, but it seems that North Side real estate is a waiting game to find an updated place that isn't a drastically overpriced flip.

I agree with Merge that the East End is just as much of a gamble as far as whether you are actually close to a walkable business district, coffee shop, restaurant as you posted. The premium you pay there is steep. As PGHYinzer mentioned, you may not even be looking over there, but Beechview and Brookline are solid options if you're willing to take a gamble on areas that people are looking to for affordable housing, good dining options and yes, some very good coffee shops within walking distance (Brew on Broadway and Cannon Coffee). They haven't gotten as much attention from the press and Pittsburgh boosters but are starting to. And of course, as these things go, by the time an area is recognized as up and coming, you're already too late.

Those South Hill B-Towns seem like pretty good spots... doesn't one of them have a burgeoning Latina community? Pittsburgh lamentably lacks that flavor.

You know what else I like as an investment? Dormont. I'm kind of shocked you can still buy there for the prices they are offering. I'm really not a South Hills guy... mostly just because I've never lived there. I just get lost once I'm through that tunnel. Still...

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Merge

I used to stop in at that coffeehouse down there... was it Morning Glory? That seemed like a pretty good asset that never got embraced by the community.

It closed before I moved here. I heard it was because the owner's parents got sick and they had to move out of town, not because it was losing money.

Regardless, a new coffee shop is being set up on Chislett right now. Dunno when the opening date is. Still, as I said, given where I am in Morningside, it literally takes the exact same time to get there as to get to Bryant Street in Highland Park. Arguably Greenwood is a nicer walk though, since it's six blocks straight north, without having to deal with crossing Negley.

Really I wish some new business district would magically appear closer to me though. There's a lot of vacant storefronts on the 900 block of Mellon for example. Or even if the ghetto convenience store five minutes from my house stopped being so ghetto.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by eschaton

It closed before I moved here. I heard it was because the owner's parents got sick and they had to move out of town, not because it was losing money.

Regardless, a new coffee shop is being set up on Chislett right now. Dunno when the opening date is. Still, as I said, given where I am in Morningside, it literally takes the exact same time to get there as to get to Bryant Street in Highland Park. Arguably Greenwood is a nicer walk though, since it's six blocks straight north, without having to deal with crossing Negley.

Really I wish some new business district would magically appear closer to me though. There's a lot of vacant storefronts on the 900 block of Mellon for example. Or even if the ghetto convenience store five minutes from my house stopped being so ghetto.

So do you end up going to Tazza D'oro then? That's a pretty good cafe.

I see what you mean about a lack of commercial activity around there though. Even Bryant Street is pretty damned small.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Merge

So do you end up going to Tazza D'oro then? That's a pretty good cafe.

I see what you mean about a lack of commercial activity around there though. Even Bryant Street is pretty damned small.

I'm honestly not a coffee drinker. I do like tea quite a bit, but get my fix with that when I go to work Downtown. I mostly walk to Bryant Street once every few weeks to go to the market there.

Bryant Street is tiny, and weirdly semi-blighted for being in a nice area. Counting up the number of storefronts, it's actually smaller than Morningside's business district, even if it's got a lot more going on.

Still, the bottom line is really all of these areas were built out with the streetcar in mind. The reason they didn't have comprehensive, functional business districts the same way that older city neighborhoods did is there was an expectation you'd take the streetcar into downtown East Liberty for your major shopping needs. This has actually gotten less pronounced over time, as many of the East End business districts were actually later retrofits of residential streets between 1920 and 1950 (e.g., South Highland, Murray, South Braddock, etc).