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As many of us have stated before, the middle class has been pushed out of the region. You either have the money to live in a good neighborhood or else settle for living in a sketchy area.
This study is about the Pittsburgh metro region, not the city.
As many of us have stated before, the middle class has been pushed out of the region. You either have the money to live in a good neighborhood or else settle for living in a sketchy area.
I should probably take the wise advice and not feed the trolls... but...
Do you even live in the Pittsburgh region? I find it hard to believe that you could be so ignorant as to believe this nonsense.
What is a "sketchy" area? My Ex bought in O'Hara for WELL under $400K. She and her husband are definitely middle class. There are numerous homes in the two to three-hundred thousand dollar range listed in Aspinwall today, and only a complete idiot could call that "sketchy". And that's just one GLARING example that refutes your point.
I should probably take the wise advice and not feed the trolls... but...
Do you even live in the Pittsburgh region? I find it hard to believe that you could be so ignorant as to believe this nonsense.
What is a "sketchy" area? My Ex bought in O'Hara for WELL under $400K. She and her husband are definitely middle class. There are numerous homes in the two to three-hundred thousand dollar range listed in Aspinwall today, and only a complete idiot could call that "sketchy". And that's just one GLARING example that refutes your point.
He always says BS like that. I got a chuckle the one time he said he'd like living in Long Island after all of the complaints he has made that Pittsburgh has become too 'East Coast'.
I now consider Pittsburgh a 'boutique' city. The basis for the long ago high economic and population growth in the region are long gone. The traits of that old industrial linage can be found in some of the exciting current growth sectors of Pittsburgh's economy. Unfortunately these are not high employment growth mechanisms. Areas such as robotics, bio technology and information technology garner plenty of creativity and potential adaptive use, but in the long run only so many professionals are employed by such.
The 'creative' class of Pittsburgh is growing and resulting in our current restaurant and culture spurt. The city proper being home to these growth segments should slowly grow in numbers. Yet the greater area or MSA will continue to loose population. Pittsburgh is becoming a sort of an island in a dying sea.
Poor economics, decrease tax base, high pensions, inferior taxes, crumbling infrastructure, geographic challenges and even a non sunbelt climate all conspire to draw down economic growth outside Pittsburgh's urban island. Outer market communities such as New Castle and Greensburg are not attractive to high growth industry. Hence the market continues to shrink and will continue to shrink as the center of growth continues to shift south and west.
Thank goodness for the likes of CMU, PIT, Westinghouse, the medical complex and other 'Burgh centric' industry and professions that are fueling the city's economy. Welcome to the boutique city!
Quality of life, increased housing cost's, an expanding downtown and increased outside population influence will continue and be a marked contrast to the Pittsburgh region however.
Just with this latest census The Charlotte Market has surpassed Pittsburgh. Replacing the Pittsburgh area as being the largest urban market in Appalchia. Contrasting with Pittsburgh, most of North Carolina is in the middle of high economic and population growth rates. Watch for Raleigh to approach Pittsburgh in market size in the not distant future while Charlotte plays leap frog over its northern neighbor. And yes Columbus and Cinicinatti gained population while the burgh lost overall. Columbus having showed high growth rates for a northern city over a prolonged period. Playing capital city, university town and a huge retail headquarters city, Columbus is now adding medical and air cargo as high growth sectors to its surprising diverse economy. ( oh that flat land you can develop cheaply and how nice to have a young pool of labour at hand that already live in the most dynamic economic city in Ohio)
One player that potentially could result in some market growth for the Pgh region would be industry spurred on by the creation of one or more 'cracker' plants associated with gas industry. Large scale plastics and associated industry could potentially bolster an entirely new industrial complex giving needed growth numbers. Roll the dice on this one, but the potential does exist. Otherwise I see Pittsburgh as a city having moderate economic growth, small population increases and curios in migration from some culturally rich cities such as NYC, DC and the such surrounded by an overall shrinking regional market. Welcome to the boutique city
Side notes: We in Pittsburgh have always enjoyed taking shots at our western neighbors over in the Buckeye State. Rightfully so when it comes to the NFl. However, I find it interesting to see the economic diversity over that way... Most notable.. Strong medicine.. Highly ranked Cleveland Clinic, Cinci Children's, CMH Nations Childrens, Columbus and Cinci large scale Insurance. Huge retail in Columbus, gap, learner, Abercrombie, Proctor & Gamble ( a 300 billion dollar Goliath in Cinci vs Pgh's largest global not measuring even half that ) Logistics and transportation, and an emerging technology area around Cincinatti's northeastern burb 'Kingsisland and Mason' Just to name a few!
Last edited by Rocklobster00; 05-23-2015 at 10:16 PM..
I now consider Pittsburgh a 'boutique' city. The basis for the long ago high economic and population growth in the region are long gone. The traits of that old industrial linage can be found in some of the exciting current growth sectors of Pittsburgh's economy. Unfortunately these are not high employment growth mechanisms. Areas such as robotics, bio technology and information technology garner plenty of creativity and potential adaptive use, but in the long run only so many professionals are employed by such.
The 'creative' class of Pittsburgh is growing and resulting in our current restaurant and culture spurt. The city proper being home to these growth segments should slowly grow in numbers. Yet the greater area or MSA will continue to loose population. Pittsburgh is becoming a sort of an island in a dying sea.
This is what I've been saying for a few years now. The city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County are where all the action is. The six outlying metropolitan counties offer little or nothing, economically speaking. As such, Pittsburgh and Allegheny County are essentially their own metropolitan area of 1.2 million inside a greater metropolitan area of 2.4 million.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster00
Poor economics, decrease tax base, high pensions, inferior taxes, crumbling infrastructure, geographic challenges and even a non sunbelt climate all conspire to draw down economic growth outside Pittsburgh's urban island. Outer market communities such as New Castle and Greensburg are not attractive to high growth industry. Hence the market continues to shrink and will continue to shrink as the center of growth continues to shift south and west.
The only legitimate worries are pensions and infrastructure. Pittsburgh continues to rank very highly in terms of income growth, as I'll reveal when I'm done sorting the data I analyzed from the U.S. Census Bureau between 2010 and 2013, the most recent year of income data from the Census Bureau. (It's actually pretty shocking.) This more than likely helps explain why tax revenue in the city of Pittsburgh has been higher than expected for the last few years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster00
Thank goodness for the likes of CMU, PIT, Westinghouse, the medical complex and other 'Burgh centric' industry and professions that are fueling the city's economy. Welcome to the boutique city!
Quality of life, increased housing cost's, an expanding downtown and increased outside population influence will continue and be a marked contrast to the Pittsburgh region however.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "'Burgh-centric," but Westinghouse has a global reach, and PNC is one of the five largest banks in the United States. There are lots of engineering and research-and-development jobs too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster00
Just with this latest census The Charlotte Market has surpassed Pittsburgh. Replacing the Pittsburgh area as being the largest urban market in Appalchia. Contrasting with Pittsburgh, most of North Carolina is in the middle of high economic and population growth rates. Watch for Raleigh to approach Pittsburgh in market size in the not distant future while Charlotte plays leap frog over its northern neighbor.
One thing I can tell you from the income data I've been sorting is that Charlotte has had the highest rate of growth in households earning less than $75,000 per year of any major metropolitan area in the United States between 2010 and 2013. That's the primary driver of the numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster00
And yes Columbus and Cinicinatti gained population while the burgh lost overall. Columbus having showed high growth rates for a northern city over a prolonged period. Playing capital city, university town and a huge retail headquarters city, Columbus is now adding medical and air cargo as high growth sectors to its surprising diverse economy. ( oh that flat land you can develop cheaply and how nice to have a young pool of labour at hand that already live in the most dynamic economic city in Ohio)
Columbus and Cincinnati never had to rebuild their entire economies from scratch. Lucky them. They're essentially adding new rooms to their homes, while Pittsburgh builds a whole new home to replace the one that burned down. And wax as poetic as you wish about youth, but remember that the median age in the city of Pittsburgh is not only younger than it was in 2000, but it's now younger than the national median age. For that matter, Allegheny County has pretty much stopped aging as well. The aging of the six outlying metropolitan counties doesn't change the fact that there's a legitimate youth movement in the urban core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster00
One player that potentially could result in some market growth for the Pgh region would be industry spurred on by the creation of one or more 'cracker' plants associated with gas industry. Large scale plastics and associated industry could potentially bolster an entirely new industrial complex giving needed growth numbers. Roll the dice on this one, but the potential does exist. Otherwise I see Pittsburgh as a city having moderate economic growth, small population increases and curios in migration from some culturally rich cities such as NYC, DC and the such surrounded by an overall shrinking regional market. Welcome to the boutique city
In other words, Pittsburgh is being reborn from the inside out, as I've been saying for years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocklobster00
Side notes: We in Pittsburgh have always enjoyed taking shots at our western neighbors over in the Buckeye State. Rightfully so when it comes to the NFl. However, I find it interesting to see the economic diversity over that way... Most notable.. Strong medicine.. Highly ranked Cleveland Clinic, Cinci Children's, CMH Nations Childrens, Columbus and Cinci large scale Insurance. Huge retail in Columbus, gap, learner, Abercrombie, Proctor & Gamble ( a 300 billion dollar Goliath in Cinci vs Pgh's largest global not measuring even half that ) Logistics and transportation, and an emerging technology area around Cincinatti's northeastern burb 'Kingsisland and Mason' Just to name a few!
So Columbus has Ohio State, Gap, Abercrombie & Fitch, and a growing medical sector, and that makes their economy diverse, but Pittsburgh has Pitt/Carnegie Mellon, American Eagle Outfitters, rue21, and an established medical sector, but somehow there's no economic diversity? Looks to me like the only real difference is that Columbus is a state capital and Pittsburgh is not. As for the size of Proctor & Gamble, it's a company that specializes in basic consumer goods, so it's no wonder the company is so large, given that somewhere between two thirds and three quarters of the national economy is based on the consumption of goods and services. The Fortune 500 companies in Pittsburgh are a bit more specialized than that, so it makes no sense to flog the city for it.
By the way, it's worth noting that Pittsburgh has something none of those three other cities have: a big bank. And it's actually pretty ethical and well-run for a big bank, considering it didn't even need TARP money to make a profit in 2008. (The Treasury Department forced them to take TARP money anyway, not that they needed it.) Fifth Third in Cincinnati is the only bank in Ohio that's even in the same galaxy, and it's only half the size of PNC in terms of both revenue and assets.
Lastly, Pennsylvania just set a new all-time high for employment in February, while Ohio is still down roughly a quarter of a million jobs from its all-time employment high waaay back in 2000, so if western Pennsylvania outside of Pittsburgh is dying, then Ohio outside of Columbus and Cincinnati must be dying too.
I now consider Pittsburgh a 'boutique' city. The basis for the long ago high economic and population growth in the region are long gone. The traits of that old industrial linage can be found in some of the exciting current growth sectors of Pittsburgh's economy. Unfortunately these are not high employment growth mechanisms. Areas such as robotics, bio technology and information technology garner plenty of creativity and potential adaptive use, but in the long run only so many professionals are employed by such.
The 'creative' class of Pittsburgh is growing and resulting in our current restaurant and culture spurt. The city proper being home to these growth segments should slowly grow in numbers. Yet the greater area or MSA will continue to loose population. Pittsburgh is becoming a sort of an island in a dying sea.
Poor economics, decrease tax base, high pensions, inferior taxes, crumbling infrastructure, geographic challenges and even a non sunbelt climate all conspire to draw down economic growth outside Pittsburgh's urban island. Outer market communities such as New Castle and Greensburg are not attractive to high growth industry. Hence the market continues to shrink and will continue to shrink as the center of growth continues to shift south and west.
Thank goodness for the likes of CMU, PIT, Westinghouse, the medical complex and other 'Burgh centric' industry and professions that are fueling the city's economy. Welcome to the boutique city!
Quality of life, increased housing cost's, an expanding downtown and increased outside population influence will continue and be a marked contrast to the Pittsburgh region however.
Just with this latest census The Charlotte Market has surpassed Pittsburgh. Replacing the Pittsburgh area as being the largest urban market in Appalchia. Contrasting with Pittsburgh, most of North Carolina is in the middle of high economic and population growth rates. Watch for Raleigh to approach Pittsburgh in market size in the not distant future while Charlotte plays leap frog over its northern neighbor. And yes Columbus and Cinicinatti gained population while the burgh lost overall. Columbus having showed high growth rates for a northern city over a prolonged period. Playing capital city, university town and a huge retail headquarters city, Columbus is now adding medical and air cargo as high growth sectors to its surprising diverse economy. ( oh that flat land you can develop cheaply and how nice to have a young pool of labour at hand that already live in the most dynamic economic city in Ohio)
One player that potentially could result in some market growth for the Pgh region would be industry spurred on by the creation of one or more 'cracker' plants associated with gas industry. Large scale plastics and associated industry could potentially bolster an entirely new industrial complex giving needed growth numbers. Roll the dice on this one, but the potential does exist. Otherwise I see Pittsburgh as a city having moderate economic growth, small population increases and curios in migration from some culturally rich cities such as NYC, DC and the such surrounded by an overall shrinking regional market. Welcome to the boutique city
Side notes: We in Pittsburgh have always enjoyed taking shots at our western neighbors over in the Buckeye State. Rightfully so when it comes to the NFl. However, I find it interesting to see the economic diversity over that way... Most notable.. Strong medicine.. Highly ranked Cleveland Clinic, Cinci Children's, CMH Nations Childrens, Columbus and Cinci large scale Insurance. Huge retail in Columbus, gap, learner, Abercrombie, Proctor & Gamble ( a 300 billion dollar Goliath in Cinci vs Pgh's largest global not measuring even half that ) Logistics and transportation, and an emerging technology area around Cincinatti's northeastern burb 'Kingsisland and Mason' Just to name a few!
You have pretty much nailed it with this post. I will disagree though that pitt is on an island. The only growth I see is the southpoint area of wash county. New homes and business popping up like crazy there. Cranberry peaked a few years ago. The city has rejuvinated a handful of neighborhoods while the rest are still declining. The only new growth is homes in the north hills outside the city limits. The outlying counties and towns other than what I mentioned is on a downward trajectory.
Charlotte and columbus are very similar in how diverse their economies are. Yea columbus is a capital city, but look at pa, ny, wv, md, Ky. Being a capital city does not guarantee growth.
Columbus also has 15,000 JP Morgan chase employees there. The most outside of new york city. Very high paying jobs there. 5 large property insurance companies are hq there. In addition, wendys, barbasol, big lots, scotts fertilizer, honda motor company, safelite auto glass and ppg paints have hq or a huge presence there. The economic diversity has made it great.
I agree the rest of ohio is dying. If anything columbus is the growth island in a sea of decline, the cleveland fed reserve, which is all of ohio, half of kentucky, northern wv and western pa including erie and pittsburgh.
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As many of us have stated before, the middle class has been pushed out of the region. You either have the money to live in a good neighborhood or else settle for living in a sketchy area.
The Burgh --Boutique City
