More politics in the Police Bureau (Pittsburgh, Reading: employment, living, costs)

[okaydorothy]

This happened in NY when we lived there. The tests was brought down to where it was fairer for everyone.

Now I do have an issue with this ; if you really want to be a police person or fire person, you should study so hard to get the exam. It is not up to the test to become easier for a person to study.

I don't care what your color is ; if you want the job that badly, you should study and do your best.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

Reading through this post leads me to believe that some of you have selective amnesia. It has been proven that the city of Pittsburgh displayed racial bias during the police hiring process. The city of Pittsburgh will pay 1.6 million to settle the lawsuit filed by the ACLU. Pittsburgh routinely hired white candidates with more recent and serious infractions on numerous occasions. The city of Pittsburgh did not hire the best qualified candidates. The city of Pittsburgh hired the whitest candidates. This type of bias is present throughout our society. The police chief should be commended for his managerial courage.

I am a city resident and can see and feel change with the police interaction in my community. I live in a predominantly black community. The police routinely stop and talk to the children in the neighborhood. The police allow the kids to view the tools of the trade and give positive words of encouragement. On numerous occasions the police went out of their way to spark a conversation with me in downtown and in the neighborhood. As a 6'3" tall black man this is encouraging.

Good news.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by Pghuser

3. I've made it and advanced past the oral exam of the police test. The oral exam went rather quick and I received high marks. It seemed to be a place to weed out people who passed the written test. 3 people administered the oral test to me. Basic questions that you would expect for this sort of exam.

What kind of questions would they ask to assist with weeding out? Who were the three people to administer the oral exam?

No worries if you're bound not to share details, I was just personally curious and also thought it could add another frame of reference to this discussion.

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

Another might be to recruit suburban officers.


A lot of suburban departments hire part time officers who get paid a whole lot less. These folks might be willing to move to the city if they get employment. Again, there might have to be a relaxation of residency rules, give the new officers a limited amount of time to move into the city.

Another very good idea! Or even allow inter-departmental transfers to maintain their current residence if they're willing to serve full-time with the Pgh Police.

Originally Posted by Merge

Before I read it I was simply going to say that it might be more effective to have more black homicide detectives in the city... if there are more black homicide victims. I would MUCH rather have police who are knowledgeable about the areas, people, and culture where they do their policing. I think investing money in locating and recruiting qualified individuals who fit this criteria is tax money well spent.

I'm going to say this is racist. Black cops should investigate crimes with black victims? White cops are incapable of doing so?

It would be like saying that only white cops should investigate crimes committed against whites.

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I am a city resident and can see and feel change with the police interaction in my community. I live in a predominantly black community. The police routinely stop and talk to the children in the neighborhood. The police allow the kids to view the tools of the trade and give positive words of encouragement. On numerous occasions the police went out of their way to spark a conversation with me in downtown and in the neighborhood. As a 6'3" tall black man this is encouraging.

And that's very good. I always try to point out police officers to my son and encourage him to wave or say hi to them. And they've always responded positively.

Community engagement is important. If it's being done now, it shows it can be done without needing to monkey with the civil service hiring process.

Originally Posted by okaydorothy

Now I do have an issue with this ; if you really want to be a police person or fire person, you should study so hard to get the exam. It is not up to the test to become easier for a person to study.

I don't care what your color is ; if you want the job that badly, you should study and do your best.

Very well said!

[Merge]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

I'm going to say this is racist. Black cops should investigate crimes with black victims? White cops are incapable of doing so?

It would be like saying that only white cops should investigate crimes committed against whites.

Yeah well... no big deal if you call it racist. You made up a statement, acted as if I said it, and then characterized it as racist. I think, since it came from your head, you should probably know better than I if it is racist or not. Well done.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by okaydorothy

This happened in NY when we lived there. The tests was brought down to where it was fairer for everyone.

Now I do have an issue with this ; if you really want to be a police person or fire person, you should study so hard to get the exam. It is not up to the test to become easier for a person to study.

I don't care what your color is ; if you want the job that badly, you should study and do your best.

Respectfully, I'm not sure that's the issue.

As I see it the real question is whether a City, its citizens and their elected leaders, when dissatisfied with the results of the pool of police applicants they are receiving, can emphasize or elevate certain characteristics and traits that they are looking for in their officers. If the current hiring process isn't resulting in the type of Police force that we want, change the process.

Personally, I believe attempting to field a police force that is demographically similar to the polity it polices is a laudable goal, but honestly it wouldn't be my top priority. I understand this quality might be somewhat difficult to get at but I'm certain individuals with expertise in hiring could figure out a way. I want police officers who believe in the idea of urban America. I don't want officers who feel they have to live outside of the City to provide their kids with a good education and their family a "safe" environment. I want people to police communities that they are invested in, have hope for and are willing to work to better.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I am a city resident and can see and feel change with the police interaction in my community. I live in a predominantly black community. The police routinely stop and talk to the children in the neighborhood. The police allow the kids to view the tools of the trade and give positive words of encouragement. On numerous occasions the police went out of their way to spark a conversation with me in downtown and in the neighborhood. As a 6'3" tall black man this is encouraging.

As you are out near the city limits, are you in a position to compare the Pittsburgh PD's performance with their Wilkinsburg PD colleagues just on the other side of the city line?

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by okaydorothy

This happened in NY when we lived there. The tests was brought down to where it was fairer for everyone.

Now I do have an issue with this ; if you really want to be a police person or fire person, you should study so hard to get the exam. It is not up to the test to become easier for a person to study.

I don't care what your color is ; if you want the job that badly, you should study and do your best.

According to the ACLU lawsuit test scores was not tge issue. The issue was with the white hiring managers turning a blind eye to serious white applicant infractions but really scrutinizing minor infractions by black applicants. I wasn't just one isolated incident. It was a systematic practice that was proven in court.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

According to the ACLU lawsuit test scores was not tge issue. The issue was with the white hiring managers turning a blind eye to serious white applicant infractions but really scrutinizing minor infractions by black applicants. I wasn't just one isolated incident. It was a systematic practice that was proven in court.

How many people got fired over that?


Or were they excused- even though they cost the city millions- because the serious white applicants that were favored by the policy were all well-connected politically?

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

How many people got fired over that?


Or were they excused- even though they cost the city millions- because the serious white applicants that were favored by the policy were all well-connected politically?

I do not think politics was the issue. Institutionalized racism was the most likely culprit. I can't imagine a young white man with drug and traffic infractions getting any type of political help. Its not as if these young men come from affluence or political backgrounds. These are orordinary citizens trying to get ahead in life. The black applicants were trying to get ahead as well but skin color was the barrier.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I do not think politics was the issue. Institutionalized racism was the most likely culprit. I can't imagine a young white man with drug and traffic infractions getting any type of political help. Its not as if these young men come from affluence or political backgrounds. These are orordinary citizens trying to get ahead in life. The black applicants were trying to get ahead as well but skin color was the barrier.

There are certainly some young white men with drug and traffic infractions who are politically connected, if you'll remember Joe Cusick. Not saying that this is the case here.


But I don't know what's worse, political nepotism and favoritism, or people involved in the city Human Resources Department who are so incompetent that they are unfamiliar with the requirements of Equal Opportunity Employment- a detailed policy that has been around for 40 years and their ignorance costs the taxpayers a couple of million dollars.


Heads should be rolling, regardless of the cause of this.