Is Observatory Hill going into (further) decline?

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

Certain lower North side neighborhoods are gentrifying rapidly, and I think the short term ripple effect is that the hills will experience a small wave of petty crime as the area transitions, but will rise in the long term as the adjacent neighborhoods become more desirable/expensive.

Yes, the gentrification of the lower north side is a double edged sword. It pushes crime into the outer neighborhoods, but it also pushes more money into the outer neighborhoods. I honestly wouldn't have given Brighton Heights or Brightwood a second thought if I had been able to comfortably afford a decent home in the lower north side when I was buying in 2012.

For Brighton Heights at least it seems to be working out fairly well. I'm always surprised by the prices I see on home sales in the Northside Chronicle.

That's a splendid location, but whenever we go explore it seems surprisingly sleepy and just a touch run down.

I too expect Fineview to do well in the long run. With it being on a hill and lacking a business district I don't know why you would expect anything but "sleepy" though.

[eschaton]

Thanks for the input everyone. I didn't mean to set off some neighborhood paranoia or cast aspersions. I have always liked Observatory Hill and have been rooting for it. At the same time, the pressures building in the North Side (gentrification of the first band of neighborhoods towards Downtown, and continued decline in the next band out) will be putting pressure on at least some of the outer North Side neighborhoods.

Originally Posted by Sciulli

It does seem a little bit deserted at times... there's really no business district.

That's honestly not true. Observatory Hill has one of the bigger commercial areas in the outer portions of the North Side. I think there's close to 30 storefronts on Perrysville and East Street, from Vinceston to the high school.

The business district is awkardly laid out though. There's very few places where there are storefronts on both sides, and there's a few total gaps in development. Plus of course there's a lot of vacant storefronts, and relatively few commercial amenities right now. But there's enough of a base that a real walkable commercial district could develop again.

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

I am actually more surprised that Fineview isn't changing more rapidly - on Observatory Hill there are plenty of dilapidated mansions to fix up, but Fineview also has great (if not quite as grand) homes, and I wonder if they will start attracting more investors. That's a splendid location, but whenever we go explore it seems surprisingly sleepy and just a touch run down.

I think Fineview's rep suffers because the Allegheny Dwellings housing project is in the neighborhood. From everything I have read the spillover crime from the project doesn't extend more than a block or two, but people see the aggregate neighborhood statistics and freak out.

In my experience, the best houses in Fineview, if you want grand and old, are on Osgood and Mountford. However, many of these houses are in horrid condition, similar to the grand homes in Perry Hilltop.

[RogersParkTransplant]

About Fineview being sleepy - I meant I always expect to see more kids, more houses being fixed up, that sort of thing. I'm comparing it to something like Stanton Heights, which is also hilly and lacking commercial activity, but somehow strikes me as more active with more people out and about. I guess it's not exactly surprising, but even Spring Hill feels more active despite being topographically similar. At least, that's what we noticed when house-hunting in 2013...

[Uptown kid]

If you haven't payed attention to what's going on in the Northside. The gangs from the rough parts of Northview, Allegheny Dwellings, Allegheny Commons, Alpine Ave/Jefferson/Carington & the other side of Federal (exc. the New Federal St Apts), Cal-bride Place, Manchester, Perry Hilltop, & most notably Marshall-Shadeland. To my surprise southern Brighton Heights (& maybe even the scattered shootings in Fineview besides "Down Bottom" & Troy Hill/Soring Hill/Spring Garden out number Perry North's) have had more violence than the Waston Blvd/Baytree St area...
5yrs from now I'm banking on certain parts of Observatory Hill turning into another East Sheraden/Marshall-Shadeland/Island Ave McKees Rocks... Simply because the City is gentrifying & forcing poor blacks & whites out of thier homes (Imo hence furthering the need for revitalization & spreading if not worsening the gang violence in the Northside), and those ppl WILL move to the Watson Blvd area of Observatory Hill.

Though right now it is a very livable neighborhood for those who look to live there. It's not for somebody who couldn't live in S. Highland Park/East Lib, Bloomfield/Oakland/South Side Fats, or S. Stanton Heights or Pebbles Sq or Hamnett Place, let alone the true roughest parts of Pittsburgh or other cities that have a majority of unsolved homicides.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

If you haven't payed attention to what's going on in the Northside. The gangs from the rough parts of Northview, Allegheny Dwellings, Allegheny Commons, Alpine Ave/Jefferson/Carington & the other side of Federal (exc. the New Federal St Apts), Cal-bride Place, Manchester, Perry Hilltop, & most notably Marshall-Shadeland. To my surprise southern Brighton Heights (& maybe even the scattered shootings in Fineview besides "Down Bottom" & Troy Hill/Soring Hill/Spring Garden out number Perry North's) have had more violence than the Waston Blvd/Baytree St area...
5yrs from now I'm banking on certain parts of Observatory Hill turning into another East Sheraden/Marshall-Shadeland/Island Ave McKees Rocks... Simply because the City is gentrifying & forcing poor blacks & whites out of thier homes (Imo hence furthering the need for revitalization & spreading if not worsening the gang violence in the Northside), and those ppl WILL move to the Watson Blvd area of Observatory Hill.

As I posted in another thread, I have inside sources that redevelopment of Northview Heights and/or Allegheny Dwellings into privately-managed, "mixed-income" developments is in the works in the next few years. Given how the previous examples have worked, this will probably mean the complexes are razed, with a smaller amount of new subsidized units on the old footprint, and most of the residents getting Section 8 vouchers. This *will* change the North Side to some degree, the same way Broadhead Manor's closing changed the West End, and the closure of Saint Clair Village and most of Arlington Heights changed the Southern Hilltop areas. Which neighborhoods will transition is an open question however.