Might Be Moving to P'Burgh (Pittsburgh, Lebanon: lease, best, area)

[ferraris]

Let me preface this by saying that it is on topic and I'm attempting helping the OP since he specifically mentioned city neighborhoods and schools in the OP. Many of the traditionally considered "good" school districts do not have easy transit commutes to Oakland.

Originally Posted by lettert

I still stand by my point based on the law of averages. The high is going to be higher in a more well performing school. They aren't going to have an AP class for one student.

This PDF is a few years old since it still includes Peabody and Oliver, but take a look for yourself.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by lettert

I still stand by my point based on the law of averages. The high is going to be higher in a more well performing school. They aren't going to have an AP class for one student.

This is only true if you presume the scores of a school are distributed on a perfect bell curve. In reality that isn't true in many cases, particularly in racially diverse schools. A good extreme example where this isn't the case in PPS is Allderdice. The black and white student body are roughly of similar size, with average white performance similar to a good suburban high school, and average black performance not all that different from the worst neighborhood high schools in the city.

[HerbertWest]

Wow, did this thread take off. I've been inattentive of it since the initial post, what with the holidays and all; but I thank everyone for their contributions and the varied perspectives which will all be considered thoroughly.

As it stands, I just got a call earlier this week informing me of my acceptance into the program and I look to be moving to Pittsburgh with family in tow around June/July.

The wife and I will be coming out sooner to scout some neighborhoods/suburbs and see what "feels" right. At the end of the day, I have two boys, 7 & 10 whose schooling is the likely priority. I have no idea how I'll gauge that environment via the Internet or even with a short visit. But thanks again for all the input and sorry if the topic forced the inevitable devolution into a city vs. 'burbs debate. Obviously there are some strong opinions on both sides leaving me somewhat reticent with mine, especially regarding a region I'm completely ignorant of. But again, I'm grateful for the input and would appreciate any more suggestions anyone would like to offer.

See you all this summer!

[RogersParkTransplant]

Congratulations on the acceptance! And don't let the school district fight get you down -- I have had this conversation in real life with lots of people in the Pitt community, and it never, ever gets unpleasant. The fighting really is a city-data thing, at least in my experience.

[HerbertWest]

Originally Posted by eschaton

As others have intimated, what you want is mostly found in the City, not in the suburbs.

There are three walkable suburbs with top-ranked schools in Allegheny County - Sewickley, Mount Lebanon, and Aspinwall. Aspinwall is the only one which would work with being a student at Pitt, given it has bus service which heads directly into Oakland. Unless Pitt is offering you a parking space on campus (which, AFAIK, they never offer to graduate employees - it takes years to get the seniority to have a space in a lot) you will be taking the bus into campus. You won't have a choice.

Aspinwall has tree-lined streets, a community feel, and a nice but small business district. Unless you're independently wealthy, I'd guess it's beyond the price range of a family relying upon a single graduate assistantship however. Most houses for sale are at least $200,000-$300,000. There are apartments, which are actually a bit cheaper than in the city, but not many, and you're going to have a hard time finding anything you could fit a family of four in.

In general, the family-based "university" community is located in the City proper or just outside of it, the non-city portions of Regent Square. The neighborhood out there is cool and family-friendly, but the non-City portions (which are split between the boroughs of Edgewood, Swissvale, and Wilkinsburg) are generally considered to have worse public schools than the City these days.

Local neighborhood schools in the Squirrel Hill/Shadyside area are just fine, although this is also the most expensive part of the city to live in (though finding an apartment should be easy, since units abound). Pittsburgh's magnet options are robust, but it is true that coming in from out of the city you'll miss the regular lottery process, meaning you'll either have to bid on the remaining slots or try and beg your way into a school.

Even if you wanted to go the more traditional suburban route to ensure "good schools" I'm not sure what you could get. The suburbs with good transit access to Oakland are to the east of the city, and generally have middling to terribly-ranked public schools. The North and South Hills suburbs, which tend to have good public schools, are fine for getting into Downtown, mostly a pain for anyone trying to get into Oakland. Plus trying to find a rental house in a top-ranked suburban school district at that price range would be difficult.

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

With two school-aged children, look to the suburbs if schools are of a high priority. You might find a good decent school setting, here and there in the city, but you would need to research and hope that luck comes your way, in terms of, availability and accessibility. There are always exceptions to the rule, but generally, the Pittsburgh City School students perform at significantly lower levels than many of their suburban counterparts. As for commuting, when I lived in Ross Township (North Hills School District) while doing my graduate work at Pitt, my commute was generally less than 30 minutes. You should be able to find a rental home in North Hills within the price range you are seeking easily.

Originally Posted by RobertOwen

OP, you may want to duck and cover, your thread is about to devolve into a City vs. Suburbs argument in 3.. 2..

Please accept my 2 cents:



May I suggest Regent Square/Park Place/North Point Breeze, for 3 reasons:

1. Frick Park! Pittsburgh's largest city park; good hiking and great biking trails
2. You will have multiple elementary school options (PPS Magnets, PPS neighborhood schools, Environmental Charter School)
3. Close, easy commute to Pitt. Easy to bike in, and the east still well served by public transit. As mentioned before, a Pitt student ID should get you a free ride on PAT buses.



I have 2 children in PPS who are doing very well. I'm happy with the education they received, and never once thought that they were somehow being 'harmed' because they were attending a public city school. Additionally, per your challenging curriculum comment, may I suggest looking into the Science and Technology Academy (PPS Sci-Tech Magnet). Sci-Tech is not for the meek, hours are longer, and greater responsibility is required from the kids who go there.

I'd like to add, these are a few very thoughtful and informative positions, and exactly the type of responses I was looking for. Thanks again!

[bluecarebear]

Living in Pittsburgh all boils down to the price. How much you are willing to spend. I didn't see that in your first post so it is difficult for most to give recommendations. Generally, if you want a good school district, then you will need to spend the money for it. The neighborhoods that you mentioned in the original post are going to be costly.

[HerbertWest]

Sorry to bring back a dead thread, but had a couple more questions that might be able to narrow down our list of choices.

Are there any suburbs or exurbs with robust downtowns/main streets/retail districts? How about any with well-supported park districts/greenways/bike trails - particularly ones that connect with regional trails?

[shadowfax]

Originally Posted by HerbertWest

Sorry to bring back a dead thread, but had a couple more questions that might be able to narrow down our list of choices.

Are there any suburbs or exurbs with robust downtowns/main streets/retail districts? How about any with well-supported park districts/greenways/bike trails - particularly ones that connect with regional trails?

Cannonsburg might be a fit. It has a fairly nice downtown area, although small, Cannonsburg park is okay and has a pretty decent outdoor pool. I think they also do free movies in the park in the summer. The Montour trail is close by which also connects with the Great Allegheny passage. It is about equidistant to Pittsburgh and Washington PA where Trinity Point has a lot to offer in the shopping department.

The area is not terribly expensive to live in and has been trying to overcome some problems with drugs but when I lived in the area I found it to be acceptable and not particularly dangerous as neighborhoods go.

Cecil PA which is in Canonsburg twp, was recently reported as the best place in America to raise a family. Is also on the montour trail but lacks any real downtown. Cecil park is nice as is the community center. It does seem to have been making a lot of improvements. Now they have two gas stations and a Subway...LOL. Not to mention some really good authentic Korean food. But it's a nice quiet little town for the most part.

The area has made a lot of improvements over the past ten years or so.

[corpgypsy]

Hi there and congratulations on the acceptance. Looked at your initial post and the desires regarding your children, wife and school and neighborhood. Should you decide to do a Pittsburgh suburb, as opposed to being in the city, there is a really wonderful and popular community called Mt. Lebanon that might mesh well with the description of your needs etc.. It is a treed, sidewalk neighborhood, close to the city, and has a well regarded school system, with residents very active civically and socially. Great town/borough( not sure?)with parks and rec centers and sports leagues etc. 2 business districts ( some people say 3 actually) that are walkable and stay at home moms are not rare. In any event, if it is something that also matches your budget and housing style, it is well worth a look.

EDIT P.S. Just read the posts from others on this thread and you have been given a lot of good info, that includes and addresses more than what I responded to. Obviously I saw the stay at home mom, need for schools that are challenging, type of environment that you desire and BINGO Mt. Lebanon. I did not take into account additional issues that you may need to consider, ( such as parking at Pitt and public transport to Oakland and on and on), but I do now note that they have been well discussed by eschaton and retired coach and several others, in both portions of this thread. Best of luck.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by HerbertWest

Sorry to bring back a dead thread, but had a couple more questions that might be able to narrow down our list of choices.

Are there any suburbs or exurbs with robust downtowns/main streets/retail districts? How about any with well-supported park districts/greenways/bike trails - particularly ones that connect with regional trails?

Depending on what you really want, I would start with Mt Lebanon, Etna/Sharpsburg, and Sewickley. Each is culturally distinct with pros and cons, but all are great places for families that want to be close to the city, but not directly in it. I know people who commute to Pitt from each, and all find it OK if not ideal.