Why is Hampton called The Bubble? (Pittsburgh, Washington: condo, mortgage, loans)

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by tclifton

1/2 million is middle class?? I think that's pretty upper middle class.

I someone that can afford a home between 200k - 400k can still solidly be classified as Middle Class.

Yeah I took him to mean upper middle class which makes sense. The distinction of upper class is actually higher than most people think, probably very few in Pittsburgh.

[S_Daddy]

What exactly counts as lower middle, middle and upper middle around here? How do house prices usually translate to income around here?

[gg]

Originally Posted by S_Daddy

What exactly counts as lower middle, middle and upper middle around here? How do house prices usually translate to income around here?

In Pittsburgh the size and value of a home is meaningless when it comes to a so called class. It has to do with the bottom line. For example, I lived in a different home in Fox Chapel several years ago and my neighbor was worth many hundreds of millions and his home was worth less than mine. Actually his car was less than mine as well. Yet, he could buy and sell most people in Fox Chapel with ease. This is a typical example of what you will find in Pittsburgh. I knew some very wealthy people in Oakmont as well and many lived in very common homes. Some of the poorer people lived in larger homes, but had no real spending money. People that are swimming in debt aren't wealthy, they are just living a lifestyle for ego sake. Those with no debt and buy their cars and homes cash or at least can do that, are really making it. The rest? Fake. Plenty of people in smaller less conspicuous homes could buy out some with the huge brash homes. Not everyone wants some giant home. Look at Warren Buffet. He has a few bucks, but drives a basic car and lives in a pretty nice home, but not all that fancy.

[tclifton]

Originally Posted by gg

In Pittsburgh the size and value of a home is meaningless when it comes to a so called class. It has to do with the bottom line. For example, I lived in a different home in Fox Chapel several years ago and my neighbor was worth many hundreds of millions and his home was worth less than mine. Actually his car was less than mine as well. Yet, he could buy and sell most people in Fox Chapel with ease. This is a typical example of what you will find in Pittsburgh. I knew some very wealthy people in Oakmont as well and many lived in very common homes. Some of the poorer people lived in larger homes, but had no real spending money. People that are swimming in debt aren't wealthy, they are just living a lifestyle for ego sake. Those with no debt and buy their cars and homes cash or at least can do that, are really making it. The rest? Fake. Plenty of people in smaller less conspicuous homes could buy out some with the huge brash homes. Not everyone wants some giant home. Look at Warren Buffet. He has a few bucks, but drives a basic car and lives in a pretty nice home, but not all that fancy.

You're describing outliers. For the most part, if someone is in a $400k house, they're upper middle class.
If someone is in a $200k house, they're middle class.

[robrobrob]

Using income, and accounting for family size is a good way to define middle class. The middle class for a family of 4 varies a lot. I have seen it as high as 140,000. One thing this doesn't take into account is the amount of one's student loans. My wife and I owe about 1100 a month. This is obviously paid with after tax dollars so it is much more than than the 13,000 a year. Another thing is a the presence of a pension and to a lesser extent a company matched 401K.

[gg]

Originally Posted by tclifton

You're describing outliers. For the most part, if someone is in a $400k house, they're upper middle class.
If someone is in a $200k house, they're middle class.

This has not at all been my experience. Not even close. TONS of old money folks that have way more money than some dope living in a $400k home pretending. I have seen it a lot in my 20 years in real estate. You can't equate wealth in the way you describe. That has more to do with ego.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by tclifton

You're describing outliers. For the most part, if someone is in a $400k house, they're upper middle class.
If someone is in a $200k house, they're middle class.

I would think that it would be more accurate that someone is upper middle class if they are purchasing a 400,000 home.

I think homes in the better neighborhoods have really spiked in value recently.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by gg

This has not at all been my experience. Not even close. TONS of old money folks that have way more money than some dope living in a $400k home pretending. I have seen it a lot in my 20 years in real estate. You can't equate wealth in the way you describe. That has more to do with ego.

A rare time we are in agreement. Usually have a leased Mercedes as well.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Right, I agree that it's complicated and that material things like houses and cars are not great indicators of social class. I think the point of the question, though, was to get a sense of the general cost of living around here. In San Diego, $500,000 will get you a modest house in a good area; in Pittsburgh it can get you a much nicer property. Both are probably middle class, but in SD that ballpark price for a home is middle class in a modest sense; in Pgh it's middle class in a more privileged sense.

We feel comfortable with an annual income in the $70k range, but our student loan debt is manageable (just paid off a big chunk, so it's down to $275/month), and our $250k home works out to $1450 in monthly payments (mortgage, tax, insurance included.) Our neighborhood includes a range of income levels, so we are middle class here (upper middle-class for Spring Hill, but middle class for the North side as a whole), and I think we could have lived in the North hills and felt comfortable there, too. On the other hand we do have a stay-at-home dad in the family; once the youngest kid is off to preschool he will find some kind of work -- so our long-term calculations do include having a bit more income once the kids are old enough to be more expensive in their needs.

[tclifton]

Originally Posted by gg

This has not at all been my experience. Not even close. TONS of old money folks that have way more money than some dope living in a $400k home pretending. I have seen it a lot in my 20 years in real estate. You can't equate wealth in the way you describe. That has more to do with ego.

Ok....we can agree to disagree. Ultimately, I don't care enough about this subject to engage in a back and forth, so we'll just leave it at that.