St. John Vianney/St. George Church (Pittsburgh, Castle Shannon: sale, apartments, houses)

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Bazzwell

Buildings like this are found in every single town in this area and only the extremely hopeful think some further good can come from keeping them standing. These are incredibly expensive to maintain in any meaningful way and in most cases aren't worth the value of the lot they sit on.

The public and the faithful spoke clearly when they stopped filling the pews for services. Church officials simply responded to the message and smartly cut their losses by closing this franchise location.

As far as the diocese deciding to close St. George, you are absolutely right. If there are enough parishioners attending and ponying up to maintain the joint, closing is the only reasonable option.


But Pittsburgh has had a pretty good record of re-purposing ecclesiastic edifices, so the building may well be standing for many years to come. Lawrenceville was at a nadir when the Church Brew Works was opened in another closed church over there. Something new and different might well emerge here.

[SorryIMovedBack]

Dioceses officials lay out reasons for closing SJV parish - South Pittsburgh Reporter

The plan is to strip the church of windows, religious artifacts, and any significant saleable or reusable architectural detail, and then demolish it.

It's a shame that these impressive old churches and schools and other public buildings that were built in grand style, and to last for ages, have fallen victim to white flight, changing demographics, job losses, and "deferred" (read "compete lack of") maintenance. I hope they find some way to save this church. But the money problem aside, the other issue is that for too many years, western PA has been set in it's blue collar mentality of disdain for old and historical buildings as just someone else's hand-me-downs. If it's old, this part of the country prefers to tear it down and replace it with something new. There is little appreciation for quality or history among the hoi polloi.

[auntieannie68]

Originally Posted by SorryIMovedBack

Dioceses officials lay out reasons for closing SJV parish - South Pittsburgh Reporter

The plan is to strip the church of windows, religious artifacts, and any significant saleable or reusable architectural detail, and then demolish it.

It's a shame that these impressive old churches and schools and other public buildings that were built in grand style, and to last for ages, have fallen victim to white flight, changing demographics, job losses, and "deferred" (read "compete lack of") maintenance. I hope they find some way to save this church. But the money problem aside, the other issue is that for too many years, western PA has been set in it's blue collar mentality of disdain for old and historical buildings as just someone else's hand-me-downs. If it's old, this part of the country prefers to tear it down and replace it with something new. There is little appreciation for quality or history among the hoi polloi.

churches are being closed thruout pa no matter how large sunday attendance is--only those inside know which but rumor has it that those with the most valuable artifacts are targeted cause this is the source of the churches' funds to pay off the priest lawsuits----not due to white flight--in other states these churches not being used are offered to other ethnic groups for worship--not so here

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by SorryIMovedBack

I hope they find some way to save this church. But the money problem aside, the other issue is that for too many years, western PA has been set in it's blue collar mentality of disdain for old and historical buildings as just someone else's hand-me-downs. If it's old, this part of the country prefers to tear it down and replace it with something new. There is little appreciation for quality or history among the hoi polloi.

I'm not feeling this. Although some have been razed, plenty of old schools and church buildings have been re-used by other churches or used for other purposes.


Further, it really isn't the call of the hoi polloi as to the fate of St. George. The Catholic diocese made the decision to close it based on finances and attendance, but they are more than willing to sell it to most buyers- although I doubt if they would sell it to a porn purveyor or abortion mill-nightclubs, residential, other religious congregations, art galleries are all possible future uses.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Bazzwell

Buildings like this are found in every single town in this area and only the extremely hopeful think some further good can come from keeping them standing. These are incredibly expensive to maintain in any meaningful way and in most cases aren't worth the value of the lot they sit on.

The public and the faithful spoke clearly when they stopped filling the pews for services. Church officials simply responded to the message and smartly cut their losses by closing this franchise location.

Restoring this beautiful edifice into something that would be a draw for people outside the neighborhood (i.e. Church Brew Works in Lawrenceville or Altar Bar in the Strip District) would nicely complement Alla Famiglia and give some traction for Allentown's revitalization. I personally would definitely consider buying my first home in Allentown. Maybe I'm an idealist, but I foresee it being pulled in the RIGHT direction as Mt. Washington and the South Side Slopes continue to improve instead of in the WRONG direction as Beltzhoover, Knoxville, and Mt. Oliver continue their slow decline. Having a sad (yet still-standing) business district gives me hope for the future of Allentown. Only so many people can continue cramming into the city neighborhoods with desirable business districts---Bloomfield, Shadyside, South Side Flats, Allegheny West, Strip District, Lawrenceville, East Liberty, Brookline, etc.---before the city needs to consider more investment in neighborhoods with anemic/dilapidated business districts (Beechview, Brighton Heights, Observatory Hill, West End Village, and, yes, Allentown)

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by auntieannie68

churches are being closed thruout pa no matter how large sunday attendance is--only those inside know which but rumor has it that those with the most valuable artifacts are targeted cause this is the source of the churches' funds to pay off the priest lawsuits----not due to white flight--in other states these churches not being used are offered to other ethnic groups for worship--not so here

This sounds like a whole lot of mistruths rolled into one

[Faer]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Restoring this beautiful edifice into something that would be a draw for people outside the neighborhood (i.e. Church Brew Works in Lawrenceville or Altar Bar in the Strip District) would nicely complement Alla Famiglia and give some traction for Allentown's revitalization. I personally would definitely consider buying my first home in Allentown. Maybe I'm an idealist, but I foresee it being pulled in the RIGHT direction as Mt. Washington and the South Side Slopes continue to improve instead of in the WRONG direction as Beltzhoover, Knoxville, and Mt. Oliver continue their slow decline. Having a sad (yet still-standing) business district gives me hope for the future of Allentown. Only so many people can continue cramming into the city neighborhoods with desirable business districts---Bloomfield, Shadyside, South Side Flats, Allegheny West, Strip District, Lawrenceville, East Liberty, Brookline, etc.---before the city needs to consider more investment in neighborhoods with anemic/dilapidated business districts (Beechview, Brighton Heights, Observatory Hill, West End Village, and, yes, Allentown)

The city is starting running out of walkable neighborhood business districts to fix up, it seems to me. What is really left, inside city limits? Allentown, E Ohio? (if that even still counts.) Allentown seems to have a little momentum, we will see. I will say this though, its pretty impossible to isolate Knoxville from Allentown with regrards to momentum, but Allentown is showing life, where up until recently even that felt like there was none. Go ahead, cross a river, we don't bite (ok, a few of us might.)

[Bazzwell]

Still, I was in real estate for many years and had the privilege to go inside many of these grand old structures and see how badly they'd fallen into disrepair in the hands of the second, third, fourth and down the line owners.

One was so bad you couldn't get to the third floor and above anymore as the main stairs had fallen down to the second floor, the others blocked off for safety reasons. Another had an overly optimistic independent congregation that prayed the vintage heating system would last another cold season. It didn't and the cost of updating shut them down, vandals finished off what was left. Another found out the cost of removing the bell from the crumbling tower, which could no longer support the weight, would cost close to $40k.

Yes, they're beautiful old places, but not for those who don't have a very clear vision and endlessly deep pockets.

[SorryIMovedBack]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

I'm not feeling this. Although some have been razed, plenty of old schools and church buildings have been re-used by other churches or used for other purposes.


Further, it really isn't the call of the hoi polloi as to the fate of St. George. The Catholic diocese made the decision to close it based on finances and attendance, but they are more than willing to sell it to most buyers- although I doubt if they would sell it to a porn purveyor or abortion mill-nightclubs, residential, other religious congregations, art galleries are all possible future uses.

My point about the culture of Western PA is that the region as a whole is chock full of a culture of remuddling, gutting, and/or idgas people who don't appreciate historic architectural styles or historical buildings. You can see that just by looking at the interiors or homes for sale in the Pittsburgh, where owners remuddled with a vengeance. There must be some ordnance against having well maintained original architecture, or something. So much of it is mucked up beyond belief.

I spent an entire evening researching online articles about this parish and what happened to the churches that were closed and consolidated into this parish. I didn't bookmark sources and I didn't have time to re-find them. But the congregation was told strip and demolish this one for sure. The churches closed for this parish consolidation show on Google Street views with window openings bricked up, and those divested churches became essentially warehouse or storage facilities after the sale. There are restrictions in the sale terms and deeds now, banning reuse as a church by any denomination other than Catholic. So if ya want a big empty stripped shell of a formerly beautiful church, you know who has 'em for sale now. They intend to strip and ruin their buildings and remove artifacts and saleable architectural details before dumping the buildings. That probably wasn't (as) true in the past. Maybe this is an evolving process, and there will be more demolitions.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by SorryIMovedBack

They intend to strip and ruin their buildings and remove artifacts and saleable architectural details before dumping the buildings. That probably wasn't (as) true in the past. Maybe this is an evolving process, and there will be more demolitions.

Removing religious artifacts is part of a process to make sure that nothing sacrilegious or that might appear sacrilegious happens. More care is taken now in part because when they sold to The Church Brew Works, they had left some of the removals to the developer and they are not happy with how that turned out.

https://thetartan.org/2006/1/30/pillbox/churches