Buying an older house -- general questions (Pittsburgh, Lawrenceville: credit, townhouse)

[mbw5100]

Hi, all,

New to Pittsburgh (I've been here about a month) and absolutely love it. I've been staying with my brother in Lawrenceville, but am looking to buy my own place. I have my eyes set on an old brick townhouse (too poor for one in Lawrenceville, though) but have some questions.

I've done major reno work in the past, but not in an area like Pittsburgh with all of the code and permit requirements. I'm looking at a beautiful home but it 1. Doesn't have a heating system and 2. Would need to be completely rewired (it's all knob and tube). It's occupied right now, amazingly. They have an industrial size space heater on each floor.

If I understand correctly, I need to use a contractor for electric, heating system, and plumbing, right? Does anyone have any ballparks on what the costs might be to rewire a 2400 sq ft house, and what type of heating system I should be pursuing in this type of house? I'm guessing I'll have to cut most of the interior walls to make this happen and save on labor.

If you have any general advice for me, I'd love to hear it!

[JayDiFiore]

Sounds like fun. If you're trying to "restore" or otherwise maintain the original character of an older place, you can't go wrong with a boiler and those sweet cast-iron radiators. Of course, for the sake of convenience and eventual resale, I doubt you or future inhabitants would be put off by forced air.

Putting in really tight, low-e windows will go a long way, no matter what system you choose (not sure if you can still get the tax credit).

My wife and I have worked with an electrician twice, and we're definitely happy with him and his work. In two different houses, we paid him to run circuits to new rooms (completely wired an attic -- which had one knob-and-tube line servicing it) with additional outlets, move outlets, hook switches to outlets, and fix some shoddy existing wiring. All told it was probably about three to four weeks of work, and we paid about $6K. PM me if you're interested... I'd be happy to pass along the word of mouth on his behalf, but I don't want to spam other forum members.

Good luck.

[eschaton]

I'm not by any means handy, but my two cents is don't be so caviler to destroy the walls - particularly if there is any good woodwork left in the house. A good electrician should be able to fish new wiring through small holes. And if you go the radiator route, often piping can be fished through the house with minimal damage. At our old house we had a historic radiator installed on our third floor (which had no heat). As the interior wall was hollow it was pretty easy for them to install it - once they lugged it up two flights of stairs.

The big advantage of forced air, of course, is you can air condition too. The down side is I've found heating (and cooling) tends to vary much move over three stories if you have forced air over radiators. Underpowered systems may barely reach your third floor at all, requiring supplemental heat.

[kelleyfossi]

for the heating system you probably will want forced air. They come in both electric and gas. But I agree with eschaton, don't rip out walls if you don't have to. As for price, I would just call some HVAC guys and electrician or two. Explain to them what you are considering doing and they can give you a ball park figure.

[guy2073]

The cost to wire a house to code without many frills like recess can lights everywhere is around 10 grand. In Pittsburgh you will have to use a registered electrician. Homeowners are not permitted to do any electrical work themselves. Pittsburgh has no say over plumbing code, Allegheny county controls that. A homeowner is permitted to do their own work as long as it is a single family home that is occupied by the owner. The best and most efficient heating system is a gas forced air, it maybe cheaper to have 2 small systems one in the attic with a ceiling registers and one in the basement with floor registers. This will allow you to zone your house better and also keep you from running alot of duct work.

Insulation will most likely be needed, it will cost around 3,500 to insulate a house like that to code, it will be well worth it. Unless you get lucky and find a stash of old radiators In good shape I would avoid looking at boiler systems, the cost is outrageous. We updated a house a few years ago, the cost of the radiators was $20 a fin used, some were over 800 a room plus restoring costs. plus if you ever want ac you will need an air handler and ductwork.

[I_Like_Spam]

I heat my brick row house with electric baseboard heat, and am more than satisfied as to how warm it gets the joint. I like the fact its quiet as opposed to a forced air situation.

As far as cooling, an a/c unit hanging out the windows on the upper floors is certainly sufficient. The brick house is like chimney, drives the heat right straight up, a/c really isn't necessary on the 1st floor.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

I heat my brick row house with electric baseboard heat, and am more than satisfied as to how warm it gets the joint. I like the fact its quiet as opposed to a forced air situation.

As far as cooling, an a/c unit hanging out the windows on the upper floors is certainly sufficient. The brick house is like chimney, drives the heat right straight up, a/c really isn't necessary on the 1st floor.

This is one of those rare occasions that I'll concur with Mr. Spam. Rowhouses, if they're brick, hold in heat rather well - particularly if you're a in the middle of a row and the other sides are both occupied. When we lived in a rowhouse, we insulated our attic, but didn't bother with the walls. The heating bills were relatively negligible.

[guy2073]

Electric is the most expensive way to heat an area.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by guy2073

Electric is the most expensive way to heat an area.

Electric is more expensive than gas*, but the equipment and installation for gas is much more money up front. If you have a small space, especially a row house sharing heat with adjoining units, the savings from switching to gas might take years to pay off the investment up front.

* I don't know about propane or oil, but I don't think those are options in the city anyway. Coal and wood I don't know about either, but they seem like they would be hard in town.

[guy2073]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

Electric is more expensive than gas*, but the equipment and installation for gas is much more money up front. If you have a small space, especially a row house sharing heat with adjoining units, the savings from switching to gas might take years to pay off the investment up front.

* I don't know about propane or oil, but I don't think those are options in the city anyway. Coal and wood I don't know about either, but they seem like they would be hard in town.

There is a big difference between a small row house and a 2500 ft free standing home. Have a HVAC guy do a calculation, you can have a $500 plus power bill.