If North Carolina caves next week (companies, required, demographics)

[theta_sigma]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

I have nothing against transsexuals and couldn't care less what bathrooms they use.

The bigot card is really lame.

Straight perverts will take advantage of any opportunity they can to do what they do. Adding another opportunity isn't smart.

The opportunity is already there! I've never been in a bathroom that scanned my genome before letting me in, have you?

The other thing here is... do y'all actually know any trans people? Because a lot of them completely 100% look like the gender they identify with. Transmen have beards. Transwomen have hips and breasts. Are you seriously saying that someone who looks like Laverne Cox* should use the men's room because of what they may or may not have in their pants?

*

This here is Shawn Stinson:

He's a transman and a body builder. Are you guys saying he should use the ladies room? I mean, I'm cool with it because he seems like a nice guy and I use a stall so it's not like anyone sees any of my business, but I have a feeling that the same people clutching their pearls over protecting women and children would freak the heck out if this man walked into the ladies room.

[erieguy]

I don't judge people by the way they look.

Again, women and children are the ones that get violated. No reason to increase the chances of it happening.

Again, don't often if ever hear of men being violated.

[fleetiebelle]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Again, women and children are the ones that get violated. No reason to increase the chances of it happening.

Again, don't often if ever hear of men being violated.

But have you (or anyone) ever heard of women or children being "violated" by a trans person in a public restroom? Enough times to be a pattern and a legitimate threat warranting this kind of legislation?

[RogersParkTransplant]

I was ignoring this thread because I assumed it had something to do with the Stanley Cup, and then I realized there isn't actually a North Carolina team in the playoffs and figured out what the fuss must be about.

I'm going back to ignoring it now, because it's so predictable which people will take which side, and people are going to keep spewing some really ignorant stuff that I don't want to read. I do have to tell you though, the pictures theta posted are really important. The people at greatest risk are the trans folk who pass as one gender, and are suddenly outed as having been born differently. Those are the people who get attacked, beaten, killed with startling frequency. Sexual violence can happen anywhere, any time, and it's unpredictable -- there's nothing in these laws that would have kept Sandusky out of the Penn state locker room, for example. The only thing this law accomplishes is to take an already marginalized group and increase their risk factor tenfold, while doing nothing to make anyone else any safer.

The weird part is that the same people who rail against gun legislation because "criminals will break the law anyway" see absolutely no irony in their attempts to tell people where to pee. Somehow I'm supposed to worry more about a penis in the ladies room than about guns on university campuses. I really wish the right to pee in the place where you believe yourself to fit in best had been included in the bill of rights, but alas, our founding fathers never imagined that politics would become so petty. And before you say that transfolk didn't exist in the 18th century, try googling it and you'll find people like Charlotte Clarke, and many more.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

But have you (or anyone) ever heard of women or children being "violated" by a trans person in a public restroom? Enough times to be a pattern and a legitimate threat warranting this kind of legislation?

I've heard of plenty of women and children violated. Don't know if they were transgender or not...and certainly no reason to change the situation, now.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

I was ignoring this thread because I assumed it had something to do with the Stanley Cup, and then I realized there isn't actually a North Carolina team in the playoffs and figured out what the fuss must be about.

I'm going back to ignoring it now, because it's so predictable which people will take which side, and people are going to keep spewing some really ignorant stuff that I don't want to read. I do have to tell you though, the pictures theta posted are really important. The people at greatest risk are the trans folk who pass as one gender, and are suddenly outed as having been born differently. Those are the people who get attacked, beaten, killed with startling frequency. Sexual violence can happen anywhere, any time, and it's unpredictable -- there's nothing in these laws that would have kept Sandusky out of the Penn state locker room, for example. The only thing this law accomplishes is to take an already marginalized group and increase their risk factor tenfold, while doing nothing to make anyone else any safer.

The weird part is that the same people who rail against gun legislation because "criminals will break the law anyway" see absolutely no irony in their attempts to tell people where to pee. Somehow I'm supposed to worry more about a penis in the ladies room than about guns on university campuses. I really wish the right to pee in the place where you believe yourself to fit in best had been included in the bill of rights, but alas, our founding fathers never imagined that politics would become so petty. And before you say that transfolk didn't exist in the 18th century, try googling it and you'll find people like Charlotte Clarke, and many more.

I see ignorant stuff posted from those in favor of it more than those against it.

The gun debate is always funny as most all shootings are by those who steal the guns from law abiding citizens who legally own them...and I will certainly always exercise my right to the wonderful second amendment.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

But have you (or anyone) ever heard of women or children being "violated" by a trans person in a public restroom? Enough times to be a pattern and a legitimate threat warranting this kind of legislation?

It's not trans people who are the problem. How do you stop any male entering a female bathroom if they claim to identfy as a female?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

It's not trans people who are the problem. How do you stop any male entering a female bathroom if they claim to identfy as a female?

I'm confused about how you guys seem to think that a sexual predator could use a dress as some sort of legal shield which will stop them from having consequences from creepy behavior.

In the face of creepy bathroom behavior, you basically have three options. One is to shame someone, which often is quite effective, but really only with the mildly creepy sort of people who have consciences - not the sort of people who would be sexual predators anyway. Another option is assault, anything from mace on up. You'd want to be damn sure you were about to be assaulted in this case, because otherwise someone would be calling the cops on you instead. Finally you can threaten to call the cops. Even if the municipality has trans-friendly bathroom laws, I don't think the police are ever going to say something to you like "if it were a man being creepy in a woman's room we could come out, but since it's a self-identified woman being creepy in the woman's room, there's nothing we can do." After all, men are busted for doing things like masturbating in men's rooms.

Even if one seriously believed that this was an issue, I don't see how it makes it A-OK to discriminate against an entire class of people. A lot of terrorists have untrimmed beards, so should we insist that anyone who looks like a mountain man needs to stay away from federal facilities? How about we make wearing revealing clothing in public a crime for women - after all, prostitutes do it, and it would be a great way to capture more of them! Or hell, since most corporate criminals are rich white men, how about we use census and IRS data come up with a likely target list, and just presume they're all guilty?

[erieguy]

The assumptions mentioned are well beyond anything suggested or that I could ever imagine.

In reality, which is barely ever popular, you're giving most anyone the opportunity to enter a restroom that they shouldn't be in.

Personally, I have no worries. Just as many here want the right to this bathroom issue upheld, I'll continue to my right to the 2nd amendment should I ever have an issue.

For those that feel women and children have no worries to the issue, I hope you never run into the situation that will now be much easier to occur.

[sskink]

'Murica runs on fear.

It might be a wise time to invest in companies that make adult diapers.