Pittsburgh pessimism (Penn Hills, Liberty, Bloomfield: low crime, gated, affordable housing)

[norcider]

I have a regular mouth breather who comes through the intersection where my kids wait for the bus every morning. It's a dark blue Suburban with a confederate flag vanity plate and tinted windows. He regularly runs the red light as well and he's always going faster than the posted limit. I don't think he's from the neighborhood he's probably passing through to get to 65.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by sadinpgh

So it is apparently a matter of being in the right (or wrong) place at the right time. I suppose I'm just always in that place, and have those neighbors. Once again...... call it luck. But yes, I've seen it in the city as well. My wife and I get frequent dirty looks, especially when shopping in Robinson. And when watching fireworks last year in a parking area, one such individual claimed that we were in "his space," and stated to my mother in law that she needs to go back to where she came from. She then stated that everyone here, except for Native Americans, is technically from somewhere else. The gentleman may or may not have had an aneurysm based on the look on his face.

A few years ago my wife and I took our two children along with my niece and nephew to South Hills Village mall. I had to exchange a pair of shoes at the Clark store. You would have thought we were aliens. My daughter was very young at the time and questioned the stares. It was like the twilight zone.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by speagles84

You said without ever having experience in rural MS that your experience in Pittsburgh was similar. How can you claim ito innaccurate without having experience there?

Two differing opinions I guess.

I'm often curious since most rarely leave the city, how these comparisons are made.

I'm also curious as to where people hang out where they experience all of this racism first hand.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by erieguy

I'm also curious as to where people hang out where they experience all of this racism first hand.

I had a close friend who was my age who grew up in Crafton who was pretty openly racist. She did understand that it was wrong on some level, and that it came from being raised by her virulently racist grandparents (her grandfather once chased a potential black homebuyer out of their neighborhood with a gun). But she still thought racist jokes were funny, admitted she didn't like black men, and made some pretty awful comments to me when I had a black girlfriend.

Another acquaintance of mine (grew up in Altoona, but lived in Pittsburgh for awhile by this point) called me a "mud shark in reverse."

I'm not even going to go into how many times I've heard working-class white people causally discuss "the blacks" or even drop the N word in casual conversation. Pittsburgh is an overtly racist town.

[gladhands]

I've had white transplants tell me they were surprised by the casual use of the N-word in Pittsburgh.

[norcider]

"The blacks", I STILL hear that! It used to be "The coloreds", that makes my skin crawl. It seems to be generational, I rarely hear anybody under a certain age utter anything like what we have been discussing.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I had a close friend who was my age who grew up in Crafton who was pretty openly racist. She did understand that it was wrong on some level, and that it came from being raised by her virulently racist grandparents (her grandfather once chased a potential black homebuyer out of their neighborhood with a gun). But she still thought racist jokes were funny, admitted she didn't like black men, and made some pretty awful comments to me when I had a black girlfriend.

Another acquaintance of mine (grew up in Altoona, but lived in Pittsburgh for awhile by this point) called me a "mud shark in reverse."

I'm not even going to go into how many times I've heard working-class white people causally discuss "the blacks" or even drop the N word in casual conversation. Pittsburgh is an overtly racist town.

Interesting. While I often visit and am surrounded by both black and white people, I don't hear these things. Perhaps it's certain places where one frequents. However, by the way some talk here, and assume every white person is racist, I expect it goes both ways.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by norcider

"The blacks", I STILL hear that! It used to be "The coloreds", that makes my skin crawl.

The oddest one was back when I moved to Lawrenceville back in 2007. One of my neighbors introduced himself to me, and after 10 minutes or so of conversation said something along the lines of "Yeah, we've had the blacks moving in around here lately, but don't worry, they're the good kind."

I've always sort of pondered that. I'm not sure he had all that much racial animus himself, but he went into the conversation presuming any white person would. It boggled my mind.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Interesting. While I often visit and am surrounded by both black and white people, I don't hear these things. Perhaps it's certain places where one frequents. However, by the way some talk here, and assume every white person is racist, I expect it goes both ways.

I'm sorry, but I'm calling bull****.

I remember within like four months of moving to Pittsburgh hearing my first case of outward racism. I was in the laundromat on Liberty Avenue in Bloomfield, and this guy who was a small-time contractor was going on to one of his friends about how a black employee of his got mad at him for using the N word. His defenses were along the lines of "There are black people and N___s - I ain't calling you one!" and "How can I be racist when I have a half-black son!" It blew my mind.

You've said you grew up in the City, or at least have relatives here. This means you've had more interactions with working-class white Pittsburgh than I have ever had, both in terms of duration and frequency. You must have heard comments like this. If you sincerely can't remember, maybe it's just because they were such a normal, commonplace part of life that it wasn't even registering in your long term memory.

[gladhands]

Studies have shown that white people with low IQs and low educational attainment are more likely to harbor racist beliefs. That's why the rural south and cities with large US-born, working-class white populations tend to be openly racist. Pittsburgh is one such city, but it's not unique. Gentrification should help fix some of the open racism, the way it has in Boston and Brooklyn. Of course, that presents its own set of racial issues.