The Train That Saved Denver (Pittsburgh, Greensburg: sales, low crime, homes)

[tyovan4]

The 22.8-mile spur from the airport to downtown is the latest addition to a regional rail system that has transformed Denver and its suburbs. Using an unprecedented public-private partnership that combines private funding, local tax dollars and federal grants, Denver has done something no other major metro area has accomplished in the past decade, though a number of cities have tried. At a moment when aging mass transit systems in several major cities are capturing headlines for mismanagement, chronic delays and even deaths, Denver is unveiling a shiny new and widely praised network: 68 stations along 10 different spurs, covering 98 miles, with another 15 miles still to come. Even before the new lines opened, 77,000 people were riding light rail each day, making it the eighth-largest system in the country even though Denver is not in the top 20 cities for population. The effects on the region’s quality of life have been measurable and also surprising, even to the project’s most committed advocates. Originally intended to unclog congested highways and defeat a stubborn brown smog that was as unhealthy as it was ugly, the new rail system has proven that its greatest value is the remarkable changes in land use its stations have prompted, from revitalizing moribund neighborhoods, like the area around Union Station, to creating new communities where once there was only sprawl or buffalo grass.

The Train That Saved Denver - POLITICO Magazine

A very interesting three-page article. I know this is about Denver, but I thought it relevant to post here with the ongoing discussions regarding expansion of the T network. I thought some fellow posters would enjoy this article.

I was also struck by some of the seeming similarities between Pgh and Denver:
- "The Denver Tramway Company, which operated 160 miles of track in its heyday, converted to diesel buses in 1950 and paved over its lines.
By the early 1970s, the baleful effects of these decisions were clear. Downtown Denver featured blocks of surface parking lots where once had stood historic homes and buildings. Traffic congestion kept growing"

- "The relationship between the stagnating city and rapidly growing counties was competitive and often confrontational, even as an energy boom attracted people and investors to the region."

- "the oil bust of 1983, a precipitous collapse in world petroleum prices that hit Denver like a neutron bomb. Exxon and other energy firms packed up shop and downtown office vacancies exceeded 30 percent, even as commercial rents fell by nearly half. The housing market tumbled."



Curious if anyone knowledgeable can comment on how Pittsburgh has been learning from Denver's experience?

[gg]

The last time I discussed people trains in our region it was a very strong NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. There was talk of a people train running from New Kensington to Pittsburgh and the owner of the line said they had NO interest in people on trains.

I am not sure why we can't give it a go, but maybe people in Pittsburgh just are too in love with their cars? The traffic is really bad these days, but mention trains and no one cares. Denver is amazing and so are places outside of Denver. I almost moved to Boulder and think I may look at Ft. Collins at some point.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by gg

The last time I discussed people trains in our region it was a very strong NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. There was talk of a people train running from New Kensington to Pittsburgh and the owner of the line said they had NO interest in people on trains.

I am not sure why we can't give it a go, but maybe people in Pittsburgh just are too in love with their cars? The traffic is really bad these days, but mention trains and no one cares. Denver is amazing and so are places outside of Denver. I almost moved to Boulder and think I may look at Ft. Collins at some point.

It's primarily about the money; comparing Pittsburgh & Denver & money you're looking at Pittsburgh with around $500 million to spend on things & Denver with $3 billion to spend which isn't even close to being comparable.

[gg]

Originally Posted by UKyank

It's primarily about the money; comparing Pittsburgh & Denver & money you're looking at Pittsburgh with around $500 million to spend on things & Denver with $3 billion to spend which isn't even close to being comparable.

They sure have a way nicer airport with one heck of a lot of business. Denver seems quite nice really. If what you say is true, you are right you can't compare the two cities. Why do they have so much more to spend? I suspect their teachers get paid much less on an average, so school taxes are way lower than here, so people maybe able to spend more on infrastructure? Just guessing, haven't looked into it.

[charisb]

Originally Posted by gg

They sure have a way nicer airport with one heck of a lot of business. Denver seems quite nice really. If what you say is true, you are right you can't compare the two cities. Why do they have so much more to spend? I suspect their teachers get paid much less on an average, so school taxes are way lower than here, so people maybe able to spend more on infrastructure? Just guessing, haven't looked into it.

Marijuana revenue?
You should definitely move out there, gg. Especially Boulder--you would love it. Affluence, skiing and white people.

[krogerDisco]

Denver is of the same order of magnitude in size to Pittsburgh, so it does make me think, it they can do it, why can't Pittsburgh?

The story really makes Denver sound like the next Silicon Valley. Too bad Pittsburgh didn't keep and maintain its Union Station as a train/subway station. The system should not only cover the county but go up to Ford City and Kittanning, out to Monroeville, Greensburg and Seven Springs, to Cranberry and Butler, to Beaver and Beaver Falls, maybe even as far as Washington and Wheeling, or even Uniontown and Morgantown, and naturally to the airport and maybe even Weirton and Steubenville.

But how did Denver put together a $7.6 billion package?

[gg]

Originally Posted by charisb

Marijuana revenue?
You should definitely move out there, gg. Especially Boulder--you would love it. Affluence, skiing and white people.

It started before marijuana revenue, so I don't think that could be it. Of course you through down your bait, with the "white people" comment. I could care less about the hue of one's skin. It is more about pride, not littering and low crime, which has nothing to do with skin tone. Again, birds of a feather flock together. We have some areas that are wild with crime in our region and those areas bleed into other areas with their crime. It does get old to say the least, but there is no stopping it and it will get worse due to social media. We are already seeing the trend starting. I want to visit Ft Collins someday. Heard that was nice.

[charisb]

Originally Posted by gg

It started before marijuana revenue, so I don't think that could be it. Of course you through down your bait, with the "white people" comment. I could care less about the hue of one's skin. It is more about pride, not littering and low crime, which has nothing to do with skin tone. Again, birds of a feather flock together. We have some areas that are wild with crime in our region and those areas bleed into other areas with their crime. It does get old to say the least, but there is no stopping it and it will get worse due to social media. We are already seeing the trend starting. I want to visit Ft Collins someday. Heard that was nice.

I wasn't been baiting you. I read the post where you said northern PA was great, in part because there were no racial minorities. I actually appreicate people who are honest about this stuff.
Boulder and Ft Collins are both very nice.

[Geeo]

The people of the Denver region voted to raise their sales tax in 2004 to help pay for the estimated $6 billion transit system, which would include heavy rail, light rail, complete streets, and transit oriented-development public-private partnerships.

There is no reason it couldn't be done in the Pittsburgh region. But my guess is that there is no political or civic will to do so.

[MountainDewGuy]

Somebody should notify the folks in Denver that it's totally foolish to build all those miles of new light rail when they could have more busways instead. Hurry, let them know before it's too late.