Carnegie this morning (high school, camp, legal)

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by gladhands

As one of (I assume) the few who actually served, I see no good in indoctrinating kids to become jingoistic authoritarians. You wanna push our politicians to adopt a less interventionist military philosophy? I'm there. You support better benefits and support programs for vets? I'm with you. I'm not, however, here for flag-waving celebrations of the troops or vets. It's silly, at best and at worst, potentially dangerous.

Or you know honoring people for their accomplishments such as coming to the aid of Europeans & overthrowing the epitome of an authoritarian regimes in two theaters. Much better history lesson to be learned from them then one will get in a classroom.
Believe it or not saying thank you wont lead to national socialism

[Merge]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Do what's right, don't do the crime, etc..., and you won't have a problem. Do the crime and expect to do the time. It's one of the first things ones learns growing up.

No idea what this response has to do with veterans, or gladhand's post.

Anyway... gladhands has made several excellent points which you are attempting to evade altogether.
Assuming that you actually were in Carnegie waving your flag (or that you will be at some parade this weekend, showing your "support"), what have you been doing that actually helps the veterans you are giving lip service to?

That's the type of question I see you asking others in multiple threads here. Are the elected representatives you vote for standing in the way of increasing veterans' benefits? And if they are, how do you justify your hypocrisy to yourself while you are waving that flag, and cheering at the parade? How do you look those veterans in the face after choosing leaders that are so willing to sacrifice them for the military adventurism that you've supported in campaign after campaign?

I think that would be difficult to reconcile.

[gladhands]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Or you know honoring people for their accomplishments such as coming to the aid of Europeans & overthrowing the epitome of an authoritarian regimes in two theaters. Much better history lesson to be learned from them then one will get in a classroom.
Believe it or not saying thank you wont lead to national socialism

Ah yes, invoke the Nazis, while engaging in the same kind of nationalism and symbol worship. We stopped the Axis Powers and that's a good thing. That doesn't mean than sending kids out to wave the flag and teaching them to revere "zomg teh troops". You're not naïve enough to believe that the sort of celebrations begin and end with World War II.

[eschaton]

I have to say, I support 100% things like providing adequate pensions and medical care for our veterans when they come home. And I think there should be an unspoken code that given people who serve potentially make the ultimate sacrifice, that we should take seriously our commitment to them - ensuring they will not die in military actions which do nothing to secure the common safety of our citizenry. And of course, if we ever end up in a "total war" like situation like WW2 again, we'd all have to make sacrifices on the home front as well.

That said, I really do not understand what "support the troops" means in the modern context. Is it just saying it, showing up to parades, and having bumper stickers on your car? How does that actually help our active duty soldiers and veterans? It seems to me more akin to sports fandom than anything resembling public policy.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by gladhands

Ah yes, invoke the Nazis, while engaging in the same kind of nationalism and symbol worship. We stopped the Axis Powers and that's a good thing. That doesn't mean than sending kids out to wave the flag and teaching them to revere "zomg teh troops". You're not naïve enough to believe that the sort of celebrations begin and end with World War II.

I'm sorry that you have such a low opinion of the people who attended the event

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by Merge

No idea what this response has to do with veterans, or gladhand's post.

Anyway... gladhands has made several excellent points which you are attempting to evade altogether.
Assuming that you actually were in Carnegie waving your flag (or that you will be at some parade this weekend, showing your "support"), what have you been doing that actually helps the veterans you are giving lip service to?

That's the type of question I see you asking others in multiple threads here. Are the elected representatives you vote for standing in the way of increasing veterans' benefits? And if they are, how do you justify your hypocrisy to yourself while you are waving that flag, and cheering at the parade? How do you look those veterans in the face after choosing leaders that are so willing to sacrifice them for the military adventurism that you've supported in campaign after campaign?

I think that would be difficult to reconcile.

Yep, I'll be at a parade on Monday in support of those who gave theirs.

Unfortunately, there's not much one can do to those elected officials who stand in the way of those benefits. Therefore I'll continue to thank the veterans, donate to them, support them, etc..., rather than worrying about a dangerous situation at a parade.

Like norcider says, "don't be skeered".

[Merge]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Unfortunately, there's not much one can do to those elected officials who stand in the way of those benefits.

Actually, the responsible thing for you to do would be to stay at home on Monday and do some research on how your congressman and senators are voting on veterans benefits bills, and then adjust your voting patterns accordingly. You can also write a note or make a call letting your representatives know how you feel.

Or yeah... you can go to your parade and feel like you are really making a difference.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by UKyank

I'm sorry that you have such a low opinion of the people who attended the event

One would think that you, as a "supporter" of veterans, might show a bit more concern over what the actual veteran in this thread is saying... rather than completely misrepresenting (or outright ignoring) his informed beliefs on the matter. I guess it's easier to shout from the sidelines though.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Merge

One would think that you, as a "supporter" of veterans, might show a bit more concern over what the actual veteran in this thread is saying... rather than completely misrepresenting (or outright ignoring) his informed beliefs on the matter. I guess it's easier to shout from the sidelines though.

No, he clearly has a low opinion of those that attend such events & even insinuates they are or will become jingoistic authoritarians (or their children will) by doing so which of course is pure nonsense.
It's further strange to believe that one cannot possibly attend such an event & also support veterans in other more meaningful ways as well. Most veterans are able to understand this & fully support their own participation in these things.
Luckily the vast majority of people will attend, honor & be fine with such events while a select few will choose to stew over them & hurl unfounded insults to those that do.
As someone who just lost a veteran of the 'greatest generation' in my family I can tell you that such events brought joy to him & he was able to teach many young people about this history of WWII in a very meaningful & powerful first hand manner.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by UKyank

No, he clearly has a low opinion of those that attend such events & even insinuates they are or will become jingoistic authoritarians (or their children will) by doing so which of course is pure nonsense.
It's further strange to believe that one cannot possibly attend such an event & also support veterans in other more meaningful ways as well. Most veterans are able to understand this & fully support their own participation in these things.
Luckily the vast majority of people will attend, honor & be fine with such events while a select few will choose to stew over them & hurl unfounded insults to those that do.
As someone who just lost a veteran of the 'greatest generation' in my family I can tell you that such events brought joy to him & he was able to teach many young people about this history of WWII in a very meaningful & powerful first hand manner.

Ok... but are you unable to understand how a veteran might feel that "supporting the troops" by waving the flag at a parade could seem like an empty gesture when so many of the attendees expend exactly zero amount of their attention on confronting politicians who give similar lip service to veterans, but continually stand in the way of improving veterans' benefits and send them to risk their lives in conflicts that aren't so moralistically clear as WWII (a war that was concluded 71 years ago)?

Is it really also so difficult for you to see how such an unreflective and uncritical support of the military (which is endemic in the US) can be seen as having the potential to encourage "authoritarianism"?