Is the geography of Pittsburgh's murders changing? (Allentown, Penn Hills: violent crime, houses)

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Merge

Yes... the US would make a great test case.


Let's, for instance, say that the US had the highest rate of gun violence in the world... and then let's imagine the US also had the highest rates of incarceration.


U.S. Has More Guns - And Gun Deaths - Than Any Other Country, Study Finds - ABC News


World Map Of Incarceration Rates - Business Insider


How would a scientist make sense of that data? Would they say that high rates of incarceration are correlated with a decrease in gun violence? (HINT: This is only for the CD posters who "love numbers")

Adjusted for population, the U.S. doesn't have the highest rate of gun violence in the world. Every country in the Americas, barring Canada and Chile, is more violent than the U.S. The same is true of most countries in the Africa, and a good deal of countries in Asia.

We do have extraordinarily high levels of violent crime compared to other developed countries however. IIRC this is true for violent crime only - plenty of places in Europe have property crime rates similar or higher to the U.S. We also have extraordinarily lax gun regulations - even compared to places like Finland, Switzerland, and Canada, where a fairly high proportion of people own guns. Come to think of it, lax gun regulations is something we have in common with the developing world.

I think it's beyond question that an effective handgun ban would lower violent crime in the U.S. Making such a ban effective would be difficult however, given the huge arsenals gun collectors have which could still filter through the black market for decades to come. It's also so politically impossible I more or less stopped caring about the issue 15 years ago. Gun ownership has become like a tribal talisman to half of the population, and I don't expect that will change in my lifetime, though I'd like to see handgun licencing treated at least as seriously as getting a drivers license. In general though, it's better to focus on other ways to reduce crime. America likes its guns too much.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by norcider

Blow the system up. Change the laws regarding private firearm transactions, 1st time stiff penalties for owning a firearm illegally/using one in a crime, no more excuses, get it done. Sell or gift a gun used in a crime, straight to prison. All this will never happen because the NRA has Washington by the short and curlies.

Makes zero sense to sell or gift a gun and go to prison if it's exchange is done legally.

Now those that do it illegally and those that use it in a crime should be locked up together.

And thankfully the NRA and 2nd Amendment are alive and well so the law abiding citizens can defend against those that choose to do the crime.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Correct, the current system does not work as is hence the suggestion to change it.

That said, if we replace the system with something, shouldn't we look at what has worked in other countries?

Originally Posted by erieguy

How does the sentencing in the US compare to other countries?

I dunno all the details, but most European countries are much more lenient than the U.S. when it comes to criminals.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I dunno all the details, but most European countries are much more lenient than the U.S. when it comes to criminals.

Not seeing the relevance. Im not seeing anything pertaining to violent criminals using a gun.

[Uptown kid]

Good thread & nice numbers eschaton... Here's what I will say about Pittsburgh's murders behind the numbers.
As with the rest of major cities there's a tremendous difference in the quality of life between the haves and the have nots.
As parts of the city thrive, or have recently been revitalized (particularly traditionally white neighborhoods or gentrified/redeveloped neighborhoods with a new found young white population/increasing white real estate/commercial interest), other parts of the city are in various stages of decline and are among the worst in the nation of rock bottom status.

If you’ve grown up in distressed, predominantly black, “mixed” and a select few white communities of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County you’ve grown up around a fair share of: gang bangers, shootings, homicide and all kinds of violence associated with drugs or poverty since the early 90’s. Only 27% of the City/ 13% of the County is black; however, blacks- particularly black males ages 14-34 from commonly plagued neighborhoods make up most of the perps and victims of gun violence. Similarly, 70% of the shooting incidents are gang-related, many of the black murders go unsolved and most often the investigation status of shootings remain “under investigation”. The schools in these places are either closing or are simply HORRIBLE. The housing projects, section 8 apartment complexes and the streets in neighborhoods that are not gentrifying/closing become concrete jungles when you have a high population of residents with: NO JOBS/criminal records/little prospects of higher education. For example, every low income, predominantly black or “mixed” neighborhood in Pittsburgh has a widely used colloquial phrase which swears on a grave of a dead gang member, homeboy/girl, or non gang-affiliated murdered community member- which there are many of. So before kids as young as five and six even join gangs their already indoctrinated in a neighborhood culture of gang slang.

Most notably there is an armageddon cycle and culture that exist in Pittsburgh ghettos that is making them an par with the rest of the nations’. This culture has deep seeded roots, but is growing in this 'Peduto Era'. It's a cycle and culture that is partially making the Pittsburgh Police Officers leave for the suburbs, receive federal scrutiny and have one of the worst morals of local departments in the region. There’s a saying known by many young people- black and white---“You can smell the fear in the air because them killers out here don’t go away”. Mass incarceration exist in the ghettos, but NOT for murder. McLeay’s Cops and County Detectives can’t clear homicides now due to years of past police corruption. Even in the deaths of toddlers, senior citizen women, beloved neighborhood preteens, well liked barbers, fathers and recently five unarmed family members-one bearing an unborn child at a barbecue in Wilkinsburg there is a code of silence and no corporation. In the inner city the ‘G Code’ has proven stronger than the prosecution of the law. Disobeying the ‘G Code’ for a witness, victim or bystander is more risky than gang bangers disobeying the law and doing a retaliation drive-by shooting at the rivals aka “opps”! A “Snitch” or “Rat” has been reinvented from a fellow who turns on his 'homiez' for less jail time, to anybody in the community who cooperates in an investigation of a crime. With the recent shootings in Wilkinsburg, among other places, have proven that anybody can get hit. And sent a message to the various warring, most violent criminal factions of the gangs: if you wait for the right opportunity you can get away with the shooting/murder. Retaliation Shootings are becoming slightly less reactionary (as they get caught/convicted more) and slightly more hunting down the enemy, waiting for a plausibly good time to strike (as those go unsolved more)...(although that's not the case for inter-personal disputed, domestic disputes or drug related shooting)

In the 2010’s, the narratives behind Black on Black Murder in the inner city is changing in Pittsburgh & throughout the nation. In the 2020's, it might look nothing like that of the late 80's, 90's and 2000's. Just as government public policies of Urban Renewal and local, independently operating Historic Redlining created ghettos...leading to conditions that fostered gangs. The gentrification/redevelopment/revitalization, raising of housing projects/formation of “mixed affordable housing” & depopulation of rock bottom neighborhoods are creating new changes--- not all for the better. Hence certain locations may get quieter and new locations become worse off. Additionally, the sheer magnitude of violent crime and the statistics may be down from the 90’s. But ask anyone! Things are not necessarily getting better. One stat to pay attention to is the fact that shootings with 3 or more victims are going up (in Pittsburgh & across the nation). Sending shots at a party and sending several enemy families to the hospital is more effective than killing one enemy and have the FBI, task force and homicide detectives creeping up your hood looking for ‘hotheads’ in the ‘set’. So yes, the gangs are also evolving with the times. Graffiti walls are slowing being replaced by post on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, SoundCloud. Gang color clothing is going away, but underneath are still, ever present gang tattoos or red, green, blue & black bandanas that can be conveniently placed in and out of one’s pocket… In the 90’s and early 2000’s gangs held their turf by standing outside bonified on the block, hangin’ out, slangin' crack & other drugs... Although with modern notions of cell phones, wi-fi & messaging, that element largely when away, turning into crafty/discreet ways of the heroin/opioid epidemic & moving gang activity to inside schools, specific corner stores, on porches of gangster's houses and scattered around the projects/apartment complexes...

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Most people involved in shootings have prior firearm violations so the idea would be to get them put away before they murder someone (& straw purchasers as also alluded too). If you stop imprisoning people for more innocuous crimes then you shouldn't incur much more in terms of cost.

You could probably let out something like 80% of violent criminals around age 35 if public safety, not retribution, was your main concern. Most people who are involved in the criminal life in their teens and 20s are basically going through a phase, and become boring middle-class adults (albeit ones with few marketable skills in the work world).

Originally Posted by erieguy

Not seeing the relevance. Im not seeing anything pertaining to violent criminals using a gun.

The link notes that in general European prisoners spend less time in prison than in the U.S. The definition of different crimes varies so much across the world I'm not going to dig in and see what people get for gun violations in each European country. Here's an article from the UK (which has some of the strictest gun laws in Europe) noting that three in four people caught with illegal guns don't go to jail.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by eschaton

You could probably let out something like 80% of violent criminals around age 35 if public safety, not retribution, was your main concern. Most people who are involved in the criminal life in their teens and 20s are basically going through a phase, and become boring middle-class adults (albeit ones with few marketable skills in the work world).



The link notes that in general European prisoners spend less time in prison than in the U.S. The definition of different crimes varies so much across the world I'm not going to dig in and see what people get for gun violations in each European country. Here's an article from the UK (which has some of the strictest gun laws in Europe) noting that three in four people caught with illegal guns don't go to jail.

From 7 years ago?

One can defend the gun using criminals all one likes. The excuses are long and old. Hopefully those that defend them and their sentence don't end up on the wrong side of their shooting.

The shootings, crime, etc..., go hand in hand with an area becoming better and more popular to inhabit. Unless you clean up the mess it will continue to grow.

[SteelCityRising]

Wow. Brighton Heights is now tied with Homewood for having the highest number of homicides in the city so far in 2016. Definitely seems to point to a trend of the criminal elements being pushed into the outer neighborhoods as the urban core continues to rapidly gentrify.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by norcider

Blow the system up. Change the laws regarding private firearm transactions, 1st time stiff penalties for owning a firearm illegally/using one in a crime, no more excuses, get it done. Sell or gift a gun used in a crime, straight to prison. All this will never happen because the NRA has Washington by the short and curlies.

Obviously merely selling something that ends up being used in a crime (would be very difficult to be a fertilizer dealer for example) would never work, but yea, don't follow the regulations & you should certainly be sent away.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Wow. Brighton Heights is now tied with Homewood for having the highest number of homicides in the city so far in 2016. Definitely seems to point to a trend of the criminal elements being pushed into the outer neighborhoods as the urban core continues to rapidly gentrify.

Isn't the spot where this most recent incident happened isolated in a way from the actual part of the neighborhood though? Such a shame to see this happen in a neighborhood which has always been pretty stable.